Walking contraindication...

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Brendon

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What do you say to the dive leader who is, let's say the exact opposite of the ideal candidate. I mean really, some instructors have really let themselves go. How do they justify telling another diver to do something they haven't been able to do in 20 yrs. I'm really starting to think that there should be some kind of "review" every few years to ensure that instructors can live up to the standards they teach to.
 
Do you mean giving feedback prior to teaching them? Or just generally passing judgement on your peers?

I realize we live in a hypocritical society, "do as I say not as do"... I'm not passing judgment, no more then the text book answer. I'm actually looking for a way to constructively deal with the issue.
I spent many years working as a commercial diver, with health standards above the average rec diver... If you didn't fit the bill, you were told plain and simple and you didn't dive. For me the instructor sets the ground rules, followed by setting the right example. Devon do you disagree with that? I wasn't looking to start a fight...
 
On the one hand, I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments. On the other some of the best teachers / coaches in the world, in many lines of endeavor, not just various sports, are not capable of the level of achievement that they can coach their students to.

I guess the difference for me is that scuba takes place in a very hostile and alien environment, one in which my personal safety as a student relies in large part on the continued capabilities and skills of my teacher. So yes, the balance comes down on the side of there should be periodic reviews as to fitness and minimum teaching standards.
 
I that instructors need a certain degree of fitness and strength to be good, safe leaders. Unfortunately, you cannot judge that from looking at someone. My friend and erstwhile mentor, NWGratefulDiver, will be the first person to admit that he rather resembles a harbor seal (and they love him). But he does a darned good job of carrying heavy gear, and he is one of the best TEACHERS I know.

I also know some slender and fit-appearing instructors to whom I would not recommend a student.

There are lots of criteria for a good dive leader or instructor. To be honest, I have worried about my OWN suitability for those roles, because I am not terribly strong, and could have significant problems trying to help a student out of the water in some of our sites. But I figure I have other strengths, and if I'm worried about the conditions, I'll make sure I have a tall, strong DM with me :)
 
What do you say to the dive leader who is, let's say the exact opposite of the ideal candidate. I mean really, some instructors have really let themselves go. How do they justify telling another diver to do something they haven't been able to do in 20 yrs. I'm really starting to think that there should be some kind of "review" every few years to ensure that instructors can live up to the standards they teach to.
There used to be, at least for those of us who ran and staffed the branch ITCs, all the skills, swims, etc. were done by ALL of the staff along with the candidates. Yet another useful tradition lost with the onesi-twosi ITCs.
 
I spent many years working as a commercial diver, with health standards above the average rec diver... If you didn't fit the bill, you were told plain and simple and you didn't dive. For me the instructor sets the ground rules, followed by setting the right example. Devon do you disagree with that? I wasn't looking to start a fight...

No, my questions were genuine - because the two situations (admittance to training & peer judgement/rebuke) are very different.

As an instructor, I would have serious professional qualms about admitting an obviously unfit diver onto pro-level training. I don't mean having an elitist 'quasi-athletic' threshold - but simply that there are written training standards to be maintained regarding professionalism and role-modelling.

However, I personally draw the line at peer judgement/rebuke. Another professionals adherence to standards of professionalism, role-modelling and even health/safety related issues with fitness/obesity simply aren't my concern. Such actions would be drifting towards a 'scuba police' attitude, whereby your views would likely cause alienation from target of your opinion. The relative professionalism of an instructor is judged where it most counts - by potential students. Failings in that respect would/could/should provide direct feedback to the individual concerned in respect to the uptake of their courses.

I do understand your concerns from a student safety perspective. An unfit, incapable instructor cannot provide the same level of care to a student due to their physical limitations. Agencies could regulate that - with re-testing etc. Governmental/regulatory authorities could regulate that (as happens in the UK/Europe). I just don't see any relevance for peer-group regulation of that.

Having said that... if one instructor witnessed any safety risks with another instructor... actual safety 'violations'.... then they could be reported to the certifying agency that the individual belongs to. The safety issue is what would matter, not the potential causes of the issue (obesity/unfit etc).

I am sure that the commercial diving community has a different perspective on this. In the UK, recreational diving instructors have to pass the same commercial diving medicals (as dictated by our Health&Safety legislations). Despite that, I haven't noticed any tendency among UK instructors to be fitter, healthier or more athletic than those recreational instructors in other locations who are not subject to the same standards.
 
Imagine the revolt if every year every "PRO" was made to do the swim/tread/etc that you do in the DM internship...and pass in order to renew. I bet there would be some seriously unhappy people!

For PADI peeps it's as follows (all timed)
1) 400m swim w/o swim aids, goggles are OK
2) 800m swim w/mask fin snorkel
3) 15min tread, hands out of water last two min
4) 100m diver tow
 
Imagine the revolt if every year every "PRO" was made to do the swim/tread/etc that you do in the DM internship...and pass in order to renew. I bet there would be some seriously unhappy people!

For PADI peeps it's as follows (all timed)
1) 400m swim w/o swim aids, goggles are OK
2) 800m swim w/mask fin snorkel
3) 15min tread, hands out of water last two min
4) 100m diver tow

I think its fair.

When I did my crossover to IANTD I had to do similar watermanship skills to the PADI DM course. However the gap was about 6 years, and, unlike my DM course, I did all skills back to back. I was shattered. But felt good for completing them. It gave a me a wake up call to my swim-fitness. Although I'm a gym rat the cardio room is like a strange unknown land for me.
 
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