Warning!

[cool_hardware52]

I find it unpleasant to have to post this, but others should have the opportunity to avoid the same problems and loses I've suffered.

Joel Silverstein, aka TDL, aka Tech Diving Limited, aka Scuba Training and Technology does not pay his bills.

DeepSeaSupply, my company, received orders from Joel and his various companies for goods.

We shipped these products in good faith and now cannot get our invoices paid. For quite some time token payments were being made, if I applied pressure, but now Joel won't respond to any communication.

These invoices have been submitted to collection, but that very seldom results in payments in these cases.

Please refrain from suggesting extra legal action or violence, these only put the forum at risk.

Responses are welcome, but stick to the facts.

Again, I have almost no expectation of recovering the thousands of dollars in question, but I am hopeful that this post will keep others from repeating my mistake.

There are many other reputable sources for dive gear to choose from.



Tobin

 

[Airborne!]

I had similar issues on the buying side of things with them. Over the years I had to often prod him to get some things shipped to me in a timely manner. This last time though it took a year to finally get my stuff and even then I had to allow him to substitute 1 high priced item for another that was close in value, but not the same quality. Since then I have found several other people with similar horror stories when it comes to big ticket items. I always worked with him and gave him the benefit of the doubt, but no more. So now I have to advise everyone to look elsewhere.

 

[flots am]

Please refrain from suggesting extra legal action or violence, these only put the forum at risk.

What's wrong with regular legal action?

flots.

 

[JBRES1]

Tobin,

Sorry to hear of the problems you have been having with collecting the funds due your company.
I very much doubt Joel will respond to your post here, but it can't hurt. I wish you luck in collections.
Lessons learned the hard way are no fun, trust me I 've been there in business.

Lets add insult to injury :
( Joel's last post )
Just got back from Utopia Village on Utilla. GREAT PLACE. Crew and hotel staff are wonderful. Chef is great. Dives were great, house reef was great. Bartenders were great.

If what you say about the unpaid invoices is true, this is just plain worng.
No money to pay bills, but can still go diving in far off lands.


Jim Breslin

 

[cool_hardware52]

What's wrong with regular legal action?

flots.

Legal action is fine. Extra legal refers to actions beyond the law.

Tobin

 

[Dsix36]

Legal action is fine. Extra legal refers to actions beyond the law.

Tobin

I think Tobin is asking me to not repeat my posts from a different forum.

 

[flots am]

Legal action is fine. Extra legal refers to actions beyond the law.

Tobin

I understand that.

My point was that if someone owed me money and didn't pay, I'd have my attorney sue them (or if it's small, go to small claims court) and seize whatever assets I could instead of posting on the internet.

An internet post saying "this guy stiffed me" only makes you feel like you did some damage to him, and opens you up to a lawsuit. It's not especially productive from a business standpoint.

FWIW, collection agencies aren't actually all that effective either. If they guy is going broke, a collection agency just slows things down until he has no assets to seize.

flots.

 

[TSandM]

As someone who is involved in legal action right now, I can definitely say that, unless the sum in question is VERY large, it just isn't worth it to get attorneys involved. ANY recovery you eventually made would be utterly eclipsed by the cost of getting it. Nobody wins in a lawsuit, except the lawyers.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I understand that.

My point was that if someone owed me money and didn't pay, I'd have my attorney sue them (or if it's small, go to small claims court) and seize whatever assets I could instead of posting on the internet.

An internet post saying "this guy stiffed me" only makes you feel like you did some damage to him, and opens you up to a lawsuit. It's not especially productive from a business standpoint.

FWIW, collection agencies aren't actually all that effective either. If they guy is going broke, a collection agency just slows things down until he has no assets to seize.

flots.

ScubaBoard is not a collection agency.

I have no illusions about collecting any of the money that Tech Diving Limited / Scuba Training and Technologies owes me.

I'm only trying to help others avoid the same grief I've experienced.

There are many other reputable sellers of scuba gear. My advice is to use them.

BTW, small claims court is no easy solution for out of state debts. Even if you do prevail, you still need to collect the judgement. When the debtor either has no assets, or is well practiced in hiding them, collection can be next to impossible.

Much better to avoid this situation than to try and correct it later.


Tobin

 

[flots am]

As someone who is involved in legal action right now, I can definitely say that, unless the sum in question is VERY large, it just isn't worth it to get attorneys involved. ANY recovery you eventually made would be utterly eclipsed by the cost of getting it. Nobody wins in a lawsuit, except the lawyers.

That would be a great reason to not extend credit.

flots.