Weight belt vs. BC integrated weights in an emergency

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nadenal

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Location
Sacramento, California, United States
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I was reading dive stories on the Internet the other day and ran across the story of a diver who was being very reckless and going way too deep. The divemaster did her best to deal with the situation but, the diver just got angry, violent and continued to descend very rapidly. The divemaster fearing for her own safety let her go and ascended to a safe depth. The diver in question was never seen again. It got me to thinking about what would I do if I were the divemaster. I was thinking I could have dumped the divers weight belt and he would have no choice but to ascend. Which led me to this question. In an emergency where I am out of control, narc'd whatever, and someone else has to deal with me to save my life which weight system would be better? I am thinking that it would be easiest to get to someones belt over someones integrated weights. I am a novice diver and would like to hear what some of you more experienced divers think of this.

Thanks
 
For starters, the divemaster was absolutely in the right and I would have done exactly the same thing. All issues with the DM's own safety aside, removing weights at depth is not a standard practice and had the diver suffered an overexpansion injury or a DCS hit due to a runaway ascent, the DM and her employer would be in some deep doo-doo (much more than what they would be in, given the situation presented).

The best answer to your question is to never place yourself in such a situation. Yes, narcosis does impair your abilities at depth, but it is your own responsibility to recognize and account for it's effects. Relying on a buddy, guide, or DM to bail you out of such a situation is just asking for trouble. If you decide that you aren't comfortable with the effects of narcosis, then simply don't dive that deep - or pursue a certification in recreational trimix.

Concerning the weight system specifically, it is again up for you to decide what system is most comfortable and works best for you. Make your buddy aware of your weight system during the pre-dive check, and ask them if they are familiar with the operation of your specific system. If they aren't, show them how to use it. And please, please, do not consider releasing weights at depth unless there is no other option whatsoever.
 
I have dived both integrated and W/B. The biggest problem that I have with integrated weight manufacturers is the sad attachment/dump systems that they employ. Zippers, ripcords, and velcro all have their serious drawbacks.

As you are just starting out, try using integrated for all but the last 6 to 8 pounds. Put those last few pounds on a standard "depth compensating" W/B. Fancy way of saying that there is a spring on the buckle. You should be able to drop that much weight at depth and not embolize yourself.

When would you do that? Usually at the beginning of a dive gone wrong. Your total weight should be set to get you about 2-4 pounds negative with no gas. The W/B should be set to counter the gas weight of a full tank. Thus, dropping your W/B at the beginning of a dive should put you pretty much neutral.
 
Dropping weight is dropping weight, as long as you and your dive buddy know how to use it.

Diving a wetsuit, I'm all integrated, in my BCD. My buddy is very familiar with the releases of these.

Diving a drysuit, I'm about half and half. If I should need to remove my BCD for any reason, I'm a heck of a lot more buoyant in the drysuit, so I combat that with a weight belt in addition to my integrated weights.
 
I use integrated weights, the advantage is that you don't have to drop all the weight at once, unlike a traditional belt, where it's all or nothing.
Difficulty is not an issue, as your buddy should be briefed pre-dive on how your gear works.
 
I prefer all my weight to be on a belt. In an emergency I do not want to be pulling weights from 2-4 different locations that are secured by different means. I want to release one buckle and have it all gone as simply and quickly as possible. Another advantage to having your weight on a belt is if you are left behind by a charter you can attach a reel to the belt and drop it so you are anchored in the first place someone will come looking for you.
 
I dive integrated weights. There are two handles, one on each side. If some body is combative having two places to pull which are out where you can get them as opposed to one place in the center of the diver might be advantageous. I have no rip cord. Just pockets that pull out and pop a clip.

Note that if a diver starts dropping too fast, and is deep, then they can have trouble inflating fast enough to stop the descent in time. You want to be adding air as you go down controlling the descent.

Regardless of the weights, I am not a fan of inexperienced divers doing deep dives like 100ft over areas where the bottom is a lot deeper than 100 ft.

From a stictly personal point of view I can pull out a pocket and drop just a little bit of weight and replace pocket. Say 4 pounds or 6 pounds, etc. Not clear why I would need to do that, but it is an option.

You do not need to pull from 2 locations. As soon as you pull from 1 location you have dropped half the weights (except for anything in tank pockets). That one pull should make the diver positive unless they are severely over weighted. They are then going to go accelerating up to the surface. It might actually be a bit better to accelerate at a slower rate.
 
I use both a belt and weight pockets on my BC; all my weight is ditch able but not all at once. All ya need to dump is enough to get you started.
 
I was reading dive stories on the Internet the other day and ran across the story of a diver who was being very reckless and going way too deep. The divemaster did her best to deal with the situation but, the diver just got angry, violent and continued to descend very rapidly. The divemaster fearing for her own safety let her go and ascended to a safe depth. The diver in question was never seen again. It got me to thinking about what would I do if I were the divemaster. I was thinking I could have dumped the divers weight belt and he would have no choice but to ascend. Which led me to this question. In an emergency where I am out of control, narc'd whatever, and someone else has to deal with me to save my life which weight system would be better? I am thinking that it would be easiest to get to someones belt over someones integrated weights. I am a novice diver and would like to hear what some of you more experienced divers think of this.

Thanks

I think it is hard to make generalizations because of the variability in diving gear configurations. Popping off a dry suit diver's 25 lb belt at depth is going to have some significant repercussions. Dropping 6 lbs off a guy diving in a dive skin off a wall in Cozumel is hardly going to be noticeable.

In general I think weight belts are easier to ditch, unless of course the diver is wearing a BP/W crotch strap over it.

As for an emergency where a diver is very narced and unresponsive and is continuing down a wall, maybe passing a depth of 200 or 230, if I were with them (and breathing air), I would just grab their tank valve from behind with one hand, hit my inflator hard and attempt to drag their butt (relatively fast) up to a more manageable depth of 80 or 100 feet as I monitor the ascent rate on my computer.

At that point I could dump all my air, begin to ride their buoyancy and attempt to come around in front of them and dump their excess air and try to establish neutral buoyancy. This would seem to be more practical and safer than trying to wrestle a weight belt off them.
 
I was reading dive stories on the Internet the other day and ran across the story of a diver who was being very reckless and going way too deep. The divemaster did her best to deal with the situation but, the diver just got angry, violent and continued to descend very rapidly. The divemaster fearing for her own safety let her go and ascended to a safe depth. The diver in question was never seen again. It got me to thinking about what would I do if I were the divemaster. I was thinking I could have dumped the divers weight belt and he would have no choice but to ascend. Which led me to this question. In an emergency where I am out of control, narc'd whatever, and someone else has to deal with me to save my life which weight system would be better? I am thinking that it would be easiest to get to someones belt over someones integrated weights. I am a novice diver and would like to hear what some of you more experienced divers think of this.

It's a tough call and has nothing to do with integrated weights. Any weight system can be quickly ditched if you're familiar with it and it was designed to be ditchable.

The real problem is that if you let the diver continue to descend, they might die. However, depending on their dive profile and skill level if you ditch their weights they might die too.

It becomes a question of comparing relative risk, and how well you believe you can control the diver.

You can hang on to pretty much anybody from behind, by grabbing the tank valve and there is very little the other diver can do about it (don't try this without training and practice). If you have enough lift in your BC, you can probably force them to ascend with you, and you can dump air from their shoulder dump. however this is significantly risky for both divers, so it's really a decision that needs to be made on a case-by-case basis.

flots.
 
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