Weighting for descent vs bottom

[BRT]

I don't know where this talk about weighting for the safety stop at the end of the dive comes from. This means that the last 15 ft of every dive involve an uncontrolled ascent, which is something you want to avoid.

Of COURSE you want to be weighted right for the 15 ft stop but also at 10ft and 5ft or even 2ft. Cutting back on the couple of pounds of weight it takes to maintain control throughout the *entire* dive from surface to surface is like having breaks on your car that stop at some point AFTER the stop sign. Someone said above that the perfect weight was with 500# in the tank. What if the diver gets delayed and he has 300# in the tank? Cutting the margin so thin will mean that he will not be able to hold his safety stop if he has to use any of the reserve air he has...... think about what you're saying here.

Anyway, I think this is wrong thinking. Obviously we are dealing here with two different paradigms but I think the difference in how much weight you need to be in control all the way to the surface isn't worth the potential issues involved in making an uncontrolled ascent through the last 15ft of every dive. Seriously.

If you think about it, no technical diver on the planet would weight themselves to make an uncontrolled ascent over the last 15ft of every dive for obvious safety reasons so why are you recommending for recreational divers to do just that? It's bad advice if you ask me.

R..

Boy do I agree with this post

 

[dmaziuk]

I don't know about you but my lungs are not enough to compensate for the buoyancy changes of a 7mm full wetsuit

At 5 feet I can compensate for the buoyancy changes of a 7mm full wetsuit with just my (very huge) p*n*s.

 

[gfaith]

I have to agree with BRT. I even like to ascend from my 15' SS by inhaling a little deeper and then hovering at 7-10 feet for another 15 seconds. It is tough for me to ascend that last 15' in 30 seconds; so breaking it up helps.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I don't know where this talk about weighting for the safety stop at the end of the dive comes from. This means that the last 15 ft of every dive involve an uncontrolled ascent, which is something you want to avoid.

Of COURSE you want to be weighted right for the 15 ft stop but also at 10ft and 5ft or even 2ft. Cutting back on the couple of pounds of weight it takes to maintain control throughout the *entire* dive from surface to surface is like having breaks on your car that stop at some point AFTER the stop sign. Someone said above that the perfect weight was with 500# in the tank. What if the diver gets delayed and he has 300# in the tank? Cutting the margin so thin will mean that he will not be able to hold his safety stop if he has to use any of the reserve air he has...... think about what you're saying here.

Anyway, I think this is wrong thinking. Obviously we are dealing here with two different paradigms but I think the difference in how much weight you need to be in control all the way to the surface isn't worth the potential issues involved in making an uncontrolled ascent through the last 15ft of every dive. Seriously.

If you think about it, no technical diver on the planet would weight themselves to make an uncontrolled ascent over the last 15ft of every dive for obvious safety reasons so why are you recommending for recreational divers to do just that? It's bad advice if you ask me.

R..

I agree and you didn't mention the issue of an SMB. You want to be able to deploy an SMB on a string or spool or reel and pull down on it hard enough for it to stand upright. Depending on the wind, seas and size of your....smb...you might even want a few extra lbs to allow yourself to be heavy at 20 feet. there can be significant suit expansion from 20 ft to the surface - if the suit is thick.

 

[gfaith]

Good point DD..

 

[Beau640]

I don't know where this talk about weighting for the safety stop at the end of the dive comes from. This means that the last 15 ft of every dive involve an uncontrolled ascent, which is something you want to avoid.

Of COURSE you want to be weighted right for the 15 ft stop but also at 10ft and 5ft or even 2ft. Cutting back on the couple of pounds of weight it takes to maintain control throughout the *entire* dive from surface to surface is like having breaks on your car that stop at some point AFTER the stop sign. Someone said above that the perfect weight was with 500# in the tank. What if the diver gets delayed and he has 300# in the tank? Cutting the margin so thin will mean that he will not be able to hold his safety stop if he has to use any of the reserve air he has...... think about what you're saying here.

Anyway, I think this is wrong thinking. Obviously we are dealing here with two different paradigms but I think the difference in how much weight you need to be in control all the way to the surface isn't worth the potential issues involved in making an uncontrolled ascent through the last 15ft of every dive. Seriously.

If you think about it, no technical diver on the planet would weight themselves to make an uncontrolled ascent over the last 15ft of every dive for obvious safety reasons so why are you recommending for recreational divers to do just that? It's bad advice if you ask me.

R..

I disagree. You can easily control your ascent from 15ft up with your lungs/breathing. I've never had an uncontrolled ascent from my safety stop solely because of weighting for 15ft. In theory however you shouldn't be worrying about that anyways because you shouldn't be ending your dive low on gas. That's the bare minimum and so weighting shouldn't be an issue.

Also, it's always good to attempt to end a dive with no less than 500psi in a tank. Safety stops can be performed anywhere between 10-20 feet. If you end up in a scenario performing a safety stop with less than 500psi, that's an emergency situation essentially and not a typical dive. There's many ways to stay down including doing the stop at 18-19 feet instead so theres more compression of wet suit (talking about no deco diving here), using buddy to help you stay down, holding onto ascent line, or kicking down to help yourself stay down. This should be an extremely rare situation however and in theory should not be happening. If it does happen, you still are weighted to manage it.

Also if you're using different gear that would require different weighting/using a DSMB which you need to be a little heavier, then fine add a couple more pounds. But to do that for every dive even if you're not using a DSMB would be a waste. Weight yourself for the situation/environment/exposure/gear you are using.

As far as the technical diving statement, as a technical diver myself weighting is not usually an issue. Your kit is usually heavy enough especially using steel doubles and a steel BP. Your final deco stop is usually 10ft and even with lofted undergarments and a dry suit up here in Michigan, with steel doubles and deco bottles/etc, no extra weight is needed and it's not hard to hold a 10ft stop. However if I was diving singles for whatever reason and needed to do a stop at 10ft, I would weight myself to be completely comfortable at 10ft with essentially empty tanks. If i'm not decompression diving, I'll weight myself to be comfortable at 10-15 feet where my usual safety stop is and use my lungs for the final ascent (although you wouldn't normally need to do this because you should be ending with more than 500psi and so then being under weight would never be an issue).

 

[Beau640]

Oh also one thing you will find out if you haven't already is that for many things in diving, there is no one right answer. One of the best parts about diving is the community and how passionate people get about their opinions and ways to dive. There's many different ways to skin a cat, and for many questions asked on scuba board, there's more than one right answer. What i've found is to listen to everyone's opinions, try different things out, and at the end of the day do what works for you.

 

[Diver0001]

I disagree. You can easily control your ascent from 15ft up with your lungs/breathing. I've never had an uncontrolled ascent from my safety stop solely because of weighting for 15ft. In theory however you shouldn't be worrying about that anyways because you shouldn't be ending your dive low on gas. That's the bare minimum and so weighting shouldn't be an issue.

Also, it's always good to attempt to end a dive with no less than 500psi in a tank. Safety stops can be performed anywhere between 10-20 feet. If you end up in a scenario performing a safety stop with less than 500psi, that's an emergency situation essentially and not a typical dive. There's many ways to stay down including doing the stop at 18-19 feet instead so theres more compression of wet suit (talking about no deco diving here), using buddy to help you stay down, holding onto ascent line, or kicking down to help yourself stay down. This should be an extremely rare situation however and in theory should not be happening. If it does happen, you still are weighted to manage it.

Also if you're using different gear that would require different weighting/using a DSMB which you need to be a little heavier, then fine add a couple more pounds. But to do that for every dive even if you're not using a DSMB would be a waste. Weight yourself for the situation/environment/exposure/gear you are using.

As far as the technical diving statement, as a technical diver myself weighting is not usually an issue. Your kit is usually heavy enough especially using steel doubles and a steel BP. Your final deco stop is usually 10ft and even with lofted undergarments and a dry suit up here in Michigan, with steel doubles and deco bottles/etc, no extra weight is needed and it's not hard to hold a 10ft stop. However if I was diving singles for whatever reason and needed to do a stop at 10ft, I would weight myself to be completely comfortable at 10ft with essentially empty tanks. If i'm not decompression diving, I'll weight myself to be comfortable at 10-15 feet where my usual safety stop is and use my lungs for the final ascent (although you wouldn't normally need to do this because you should be ending with more than 500psi and so then being under weight would never be an issue).

Well.... let's get precise with what we're talking about here.

If you are weighted for 15ft you cannot stop your ascent any shallower than that, which is what weighted for 15ft means, in which case you are making an uncontrolled ascent. An uncontrolled ascent means it cannot be stopped. If you can no longer stop your ascent then you are no longer in control of your buoyancy.

If you can stop shallower than 15ft then you are not weighted for 15ft, you are weighted for 10ft or whatever you said.

Yes, we will need to agree to disagree about this because I am convinced that what you are suggesting is wrong and bad advice and I'm not coming off of that standpoint. Either you are in control of the *whole* dive or you are not. Having to pull a bunch of circus stunts in the last 15ft like holding on to a line or holding on to your buddy (the assumption evidently being that he IS weighted correctly) or kicking down to hold a stop is just wrong on so many levels. Once again this is bad advice.

I don't want to argue about it with you because I suspect you aren't going to change your stand point either so now I've said what I needed to say and I'll leave it at that.

R..

 

[Storker]

I don't know where this talk about weighting for the safety stop at the end of the dive comes from. This means that the last 15 ft of every dive involve an uncontrolled ascent, which is something you want to avoid.

It would also make a couple of the Rescue course exercises... awkward. Like the first I was given: ascend in a controlled manner to just below the surface and stick only your hand up above the surface. Or the one that requires you to descend below the "victim", then swim underneath and behind them to take control of them.

 

[Beau640]

You're still talking about an emergency situation. People shouldn't be ending their dives with less than 500psi. Weighting for an essentially empty tank which is an emergency situation and shouldn't be happening means 99/100 other dives you have absolutely no weighting or ascent or circus act issues because you'll have the extra weight from ending the dive with enough air in your tank.

On the average dive you won't actually have an empty bcd at your safety stop. The "weight for an empty tank at 10-15 feet" comes from attempting to find the absolute minimum weight you could use. But you should never in theory be at that safety stop with an empty tank. And if you are you are weighted to hold the stop and then use other ways to get up the last 10-15 feet since it's an emergency situation and shouldn't be happening.