wet suit & steel doubles who dive with that kit

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lucca brassi

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Kocevje , Slovenia , Europe
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I'm a Fish!
I like just to ask if anyone dive with that combination ?

...like 5+5 mm wet-suit + alu backplate + (2kg+2kg ) dropweights + canister light 2kg in water +

(doubles (flat eurocylinders -1,5 kg empty)) .....@ 100 bar I become neutral buoyant (without weights )


I try to get that bloody dry suit MTM a few years but always somehow evades fro me to get it :( ( i count with 1800-2000€ )

I dive mostly from May- September , our see is very shallow (max 33m ) mostly 20m and warm cca 19-20°C .

I'm not freezable. (2kg+2kg ) dropweights I use for free diving in scubapro shorty or spearfishing

I don't like caves like ours , cold , dark , single entrance , tight and muddy and they are only few to dive in rare occasions .

it is really dry suit obligation for doubles ?
 
I like just to ask if anyone dive with that combination ?

...like 5+5 mm wet-suit + alu backplate + (2kg+2kg ) dropweights + canister light 2kg in water +

(doubles (flat eurocylinders -1,5 kg empty)) .....@ 100 bar I become neutral buoyant (without weights )




it is really dry suit obligation for doubles ?
The issue becomes serious with deep dives....not so much at 90 feet and shallower.
And the Dry suit is contributes massive drag, compared to a wetsuit...though this is only relevant if you are configured to be very streamlined, and if you swim significantly on dives.
Another option is staying with the wetsuit, and adding a heated undershirt.....Thermalution Heated Undersuit -70M (Shortsleeve)
My wife uses one of these to do 5 and 6 hour long dives at the BHB Marine Park....Normally just the last 2 to 3 hours when she would normally be getting cold in her Aqua Lung Wetsuit.

Both my wife and I have DUI TLS 350 drysuits, and both of us try to avoid using them at all costs, because the diving we enjoy most off of Palm Beach Florida, involves diving in currents which penalize the Dry suit user severely.
You will find most Dry suit divers denying this, and most will try to say that you should not be trying to swim so much, or so fast---but this is rationalization of the choices they have made--If they did it, it must be right ! :)

I think the heated undergarment with a slick suit with great insulation like the Aqualung 5m or 7/8 , will be warmer than most Dry suit configurations ( meaning with what is worn inside them), and it will be very slick in the water--meaning you move far more effortlessly, and your breathing rate goes way down, since you don't work as hard. If you were wanting to do 200 foot deep and deeper dives, as the mainstay to your diving pleasures, then I would NOT be suggesting the heated wetsuit option so much....the heated shirt still works, but the wetsuit insulation ceases to help as much....so at some depth, the dry suit will get the advantage--and most divers doing lots of 200 foot deep plus diving, are not really swimming that much. Start adding stages, and your drag gets to be so high that the dry suit drag is no longer relevant.
 
In a DIR context, the above statement is incorrect. Here's why.

the issue is serious for any diving below about 30ft because of the amount of buoyancy the wetsuit loses, has absolutely nothing to do with warmth in a DIR context. You try to dive a balanced rig, you choose to dive wet which is a problem with steel bottles because it is difficult to get to a balanced rig with said bottles because now none of you weight is ditchable in the event of a wing failure and you have the potential to be very negative at the bottom to the point that you can't kick the rig to the surface. This is bad.

In open water, if you're diving big steel doubles you NEED to have redundant buoyancy, whether from a drysuit, or lift bag. I'm not familiar enough with euro style cylinders, but your twinset is already offsetting about 9kg/19lbs of lead with them empty. This is not factoring in the bands, manifold, first stages, which are easily another 3kg, so you're really at 12kg/26lbs. This is with empty tanks. You mention 2kg are on drop weights, so if you feel that you can kick 10kg/22lbs of weight up from the bottom when your wing fails, then fine. I can barely do it, and it requires a LOT of effort including continuous effort at the surface. If you feel that you can safely do that, then fine. This is not including air in the cylinders, which is going to be another 7kg/16lbs if they are twin 100's which are about as small as bottles realistically get. So now you have a worst case scenario of a wing failure at depth, you ditch your drop weights, and have to swim 17kg/38lbs up to the surface. I don't know a single person that can do that and I've worked with Navy EOD divers and SEAL's, and USCG Rescue Swimmers. I don't know a single one of them that can maintain 38lbs of thrust out of their legs, some can give it in a burst, but not maintain it.

Situation above is your situation, this scenario if you choose to dive wet will require a 25kg/50lb lift bag minimum to be safe *this is not "DIR" because it still points to an unbalanced rig*. If you dive dry, you have constant buoyancy, so at depth in a suit failure you'd still have the wing, though for a drysuit to hold 0 air is quite difficult, and in a wing failure, you would at least have the drysuit offsetting a significant amount of weight with the ability to realistically take on the rest of the weight from the wing in an emergency. It will be unwieldy, but you'll get to the surface. Now, if you were diving aluminums in this case, you'd have a total of 7kg/15lbs required of extra ditchable weight from your current scenario, less the 3kg from your bottles, so net extra 4kg. So now you're at 16kg total ballast, but 9kg of it is ditchable, so now instead of having to swim up to the 12kg best case scenario, you now only have to swim up 7kg/15lbs. Many agencies require students in a bathing suit to acquire a 10lb diving brick and keep it at the surface, so 15lbs with fins is easy. This is why to dive steel bottles you need redundant buoyancy, easiest form is a drysuit. Sometimes you have to work around if you're diving in warm water, drysuits aren't accessible for whatever reason but you need the gas volume, in that case you have to carry a lift bag if you're adamant about using a wetsuit with those tanks.
 
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touche, but I was mentioning the only way to safely dive that rig with a wetsuit. I understand it's not kosher with GUE not advocating redundant buoyancy citing properly balanced rigs in all instances.

In either instance, your current rig + drysuit would be as balanced as reasonably possible, and aluminums+wetsuit *though steel 72's in the US can be dove in a balanced rig, but that's only because they're as small as they are, and aluminums are still preferred for wetsuit context
 
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Pls take some gue training. This happens over and over where you say something about dir/gue and it's wrong.
 
I stand corrected.....I was not even considering heavy steel...just thinking about doubles and drysuit versus wetsuit. Tbone is quite right..double steels are way too heavy for what you described. Double Aluminums are what I was thinking of --It was early morning, and I was not awake enough to read the post well ...Sorry.

Double 72's I remember fondly...they would work fine with wetsuit, but I am certain these were NOT what the OP had in mind :)
 
If he's correctly weighted, a wing failure means worst case maybe 12kg assuming that his suit has ZERO buoyancy (which is horse**** imo, especially at 20m...). The manifold and all that stuff never even come into the equation when calculating the lift of a wing.

If your dives don't require the redundancy (deep dives, caves), then dropping weights is fine with the original DIR view I think? Pretty sure I remember GI3 explaining to put on the belt either above or under the harness (DIR 3 video?). But honestly, if you're not negative with empty tanks, there shouldn't be any issue...
 
With double 80 aluminums being such an elegant solution. ...I'd be hard pressed to come up with a good reason to use double heavy steels for these 90 foot dives or shallower. .. With the al 80's, you dont even need a wing to swim up, lot less be in a scenario where you might need to ditch weight...not that this would be the end of the world....but still....not needing the bc/wing to reach the surface is a very good thing....something to strive for.
 
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In a DIR context,

(snip)

This is why to dive steel bottles you need redundant buoyancy, easiest form is a drysuit
Yes, that's what I've learned.

. Sometimes you have to work around if you're diving in warm water, drysuits aren't accessible for whatever reason but you need the gas volume
Then the solution here, I believe is double AL80s + stages

, in that case you have to carry a lift bag if you're adamant about using a wetsuit with those tanks.
Being adamant about diving an unbalanced rig would be the problem in this case, it would no longer be a DIR mindset.

I'm new to the system myself and trying to learn as much as I can, but that's how I understand it, please DO correct me if I'm wrong :wink:
 
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