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well, okay. I see that they do not seem to mind endangering the greenpeace activists.
You continue to only choose points you can "win". I still cannot comprehend why the same person upset about coral grafitti would defend whaling in any way. But, Kim, I just don't think we are on the same wavelength here. You originally cried racism and it got my back up. I just don't see it...
I very much like the Marine Biologist's post about the numbers game vs the immeasurable loss sustained by continuing this practice. He articulated my position better than I can. I just do not see any recognition from you that you see that we are factoring in concepts here that you fail to even recognize. Very similiar to you not understanding "I am sorry you see me as condescending". That is not really an apology (not that you owe me one!) But it's essential essence is profoundly different from "I am sorry I was condescending". When I apologized I said " I am sorry I was rude" That means something different from "Kim, I am sorry that you see me as rude. I still do not understand what name you say I called you. "A bad example"? Then, you are very sensitive to be in this passionate debate, of which you and Andy seem to have no real feelings about. Just a desire to "out-fact" someone else. Only sensitive when it comes to your wife's ethnicity or a perception that you were called a name. But no sensitivity for the whales or us "other people".

PS So, can I run protesters or the press over with my car? Just because they are interfering with me? No, it would be manslaughter at the very least in my way of thinking. Hey, maybe I am wrong and if so I stand corrected I guess.
 
Well it's obvious I'm not getting through to you. You feel that you can label someone 'condescending', 'a bad example', 'to have no real feelings', 'no sensistivity' etc, claim to have a 'spirituality' that supposedly I don't possess simply because you don't want to see anothers point of view and believe yourself to be totally correct!!??? No, you are right, we're not on the same wavelength. My wavelength makes allowance for the fact that others may not think like I do - yours obviously doesn't.
 
Well, I am really not wanting to end on this note. I am genuinely sorry that I did not argue my position in a more factual and less personal way. I sense that you are a kind person and I regret how this has gone. Andy kinda gets under my skin and gets me aggitated. (probably some lawyer trick to get people to auto-combust on the stand)
Lately, I am feeling a lot of anti-American sentiment that I do not agree with. AND the time I was approached by this 45 ft whale on the ascent line of the Corsair left a lasting impression on my psyche. He came close enough to touch and his soulful eye gazed into mine for a full 15 minutes, as he swam gently around me seemingly aware of my fragile presence. I suppose that experience has mad me ...somewhat irrational. I am sorry to have offended you.
 
Catherine - I am also sorry that this got so personal and I understand very well that you have been trying to argue from your heart and your convictions. The internet can be a difficult place to have such a discussion as this as statements can often come across rather differently from the way that they were intended, and it's sometimes easy to ascribe motives to someone else that aren't there. I also can understand how it feels when 'anti-American' sentiment becomes apparent. Actually - I think that it's very similar to when 'anti-Japanese' sentiment is expressed and that has been one of the main things I have been trying to say. No one likes it when they feel that they, or their way of life, is under attack - not you, not me. Everyone has their own faults though, Americans, Japanese, English, French etc etc. So if people start criticizing then it's only natural that rocks start getting thrown in every direction. Often this is nowhere greater apparent than in ecological areas such as whaling or other fishing, pollution, global warming etc - and different nations have such disparate views on the topics and don't agree with each other.
I would like to repeat something I said earlier though. In spite of what is happening now I honestly think that eating whale will disappear from Japan in the next 30 or 40 years. While the older generations were brought up with whale meat often being a staple part of their diet (because it used to be so cheap), this is completely untrue these days and very few children in Japan now have any idea what it is, because to a very large extent it's not available and even if it is has become one of the most expensive foods to buy. As the older people die and the children grow up the culture will slowly change as it is not in the diet of the kids now. Sure, there are a couple of places where they try to fight hard to maintain this culture and even put it onto school menus etc to try to keep the kids involved - but those places are so few that it's hard to see how the whole thing can become anything but a cultural relic that slowly fades away. These same kids also watch more and more stuff on TV like 'Finding Nemo' etc, which also greatly affects how they view the sea and the creatures who inhabit it. The point therefore becomes how to ensure that this cultural shift happens before anything becomes extinct for good. Personally I believe that the quota system will do that because the days of unrestricted catch are long gone. Of course the undetermined effects of global warming might make that incorrect. Antartica has seen the largest rises in temperature from the whole world. The resulting ice melts and water temperature changes are affecting the krill, which in turn is affecting the whale populations. We might have far larger problems than we realize, or that a few whalers are creating.
Anyway....I would just say 'trust the kids'. It's going to be their planet later and I fully expect that in the same way we were different from our parents, I fully expect them to be very different from us. Change takes a long time.
 
there is nothing i can do to stop the killing going on in Iraq right now.

human beings on both sides are being killed and hurt, and young American boys
are coming home dead, and young Iraqi boys are blowing themselves up to do it.

according to the UN, approximately 40 "major" conflicts are raging on Earth
right now, and God knows how many more "low intensity" conficlts.
By UN statistic, a minimum of 40,000 soldiers and approximately twice that many civilians will die this year as a result of war. that's roughly 120,000
human beings, at a minimum.

and there's nothing i can do about it...

how pissed off do i get when the Japanese kill 600 minke whales?

honestly, not very.

i can understand if you do, but to me, there's a bigger picture out there
 
Now Andy, we would not want to "kick over an anthill" again, would we?
 
Oh, and you guys, I think you might enjoy Googling "Dali Lama on war in Iraq". I find great refuge in the Tibetan Buddhist perspective. (okay not a peep more from me, I promise)
 
Whale meat is the Dalai Lama's favorite food. He usually wears a baseball cap backwards and an Oakland Raiders' jacket so no one recognizes him.
 
Tom Winters:
Whale meat is the Dalai Lama's favorite food. He usually wears a baseball cap backwards and an Oakland Raiders' jacket so no one recognizes him.

Now, Tom that's not cool.
 
You know, this is an interesting thread. For what it's worth, I also oppose whaling of any kind. For me, I admit it's emotional.

That being said (and I cannot site the study) I watched a program once about dolphins and how they "proved" they can think and solve problems. Of course, anything can be skewed. But it was interesting.

I'm not a marine biologiest so I'm not sure how closely whales and dolphins are related. I suspect closely, though.

I'm from Seattle. This is where "Namu", the very first recorded Orca was "captured". It took a man a short time to "train" this gentle giant. (I kinda like quotation marks)

Does anyone know if there is data out there regarding intelligence levels for different species of whale? Just curious.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Opinions can be changed with the presentation of previously unheard "facts". That is why discussions are beneficial. However, all "facts" are not factual (that was fun to write) so we must be careful not to believe everything we hear, read, or even see.

As for human deaths vs whale deaths and which is more important, remember that this issue, also, is one of individual perspective and sometimes even religious beliefs.

Peace Out.
 
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