What a DiveMaster Can (and Can't) do once qualified?

[Saniflush]

Lot's of really good advice in this thread regarding questions to ask yourself. As someone who is a pretty freshly minted DM I would say that it is about what enjoyment you gain. I have thoroughly enjoyed being around new divers and helping to work with them. I hope that doesn't change but I am using DM as a way to stick my toe in the water of teaching to decide if I might want to go on.

 

[Lorenzoid]

@SammyW

Lorenzoid's post above was pretty much the way I thought before I took the PADI DM course.

A lot of people say that the course doesn't make you a better diver, or improve your skills, rather it is just a step towards instructor. I have to disagree (the caveat here is it depends on your instructors)

. . .

I'm sure taking the DM course is one way to help make you a better diver--and it's no doubt the most widely publicized way--but we shouldn't forget there are other ways. One thing I discovered through SB is that there are some fairly renowned instructors out there who are willing to work with a student apart from any formal course on skills that should help make them a better diver. Why spend time on learning to lead dives and teach others when you could spend that time on learning what is really your goal? I took GUE Fundamentals, but it's even possible to learn better diving skills apart from any course if you find the right instructor. People who want to improve their skills yet have no intention of teaching/leading dives seem to go for a DM course because it's easy to find one. As you say, it all really depends on finding the right instructor.

 

[TheCoolBeans]

If i have to pay for the course, the HSE Medical certificate PLUS yearly fees then I'm leaning more towards NOT doing the course.

Anyone able to tell me how much annual SSI DM fees are in the UK?

 

[Marie13]

If i have to pay for the course, the HSE Medical certificate PLUS yearly fees then I'm leaning more towards NOT doing the course.

Anyone able to tell me how much annual SSI DM fees are in the UK?

@SammyW your dive center should be able to supply you with that information.

Also, how much is the medical certificate? Does it only need to be done once or does it need to be renewed at regular intervals (once a year, for example)?

 

[Diving Dubai]

I'm sure taking the DM course is one way to help make you a better diver--and it's no doubt the most widely publicized way--but we shouldn't forget there are other ways.

Hi Don't disagree with you one bit. I used the examples I did because this was a thread asking about the value of the DM course. Also because what you wrote was exactly my thoughts about the DM course before I took it


If I can pick up on one part of your post.

Why spend time on learning to lead dives and teach others when you could spend that time on learning what is really your goal?

So I entered with pretty good skills, certainly more than adequate for Rec diving. However I soon found that being in very shallow water magnified deficiencies I had which weren't apparent in normal diving. I mean who spends their time in only 6' of water?

Having refined my buoyancy and positional finning while being task loaded - i.e. focused on a student rather than what I was doing translated into much better Rec skills. Had I not taken the course I wouldn't have a) had the chance to fine tune those skills b) Even known that my skills could be fine tuned to that extent.

I often encourage people to take Tech 40 (in the PADI world) Not so they can become tech divers, but because the skills and knowledge can easily improve someone's Rec diving experience - even on a 30' bimble around a reef.

One thing that was reinforced to me post DM course - was that you never know with any course what nuggets of information or experience you might learn. It's often not apparent from the course outline.

While taking courses or working with a mentor on subject you want to know more about or know you require extra practise with is absolutely a good thing. As I found it's the unexpected things you learn or skills you enhance unexpectedly - often those you think you have down pat, which are the greatest learning experience.

So while I would never say the DM course is the end all of all courses, I maintain that with a good instructor and an open mind, its surprising what you learn and how that translates into your normal fun diving, and can be a worth while course without wanting to guide groups or teach students

 

[Diver0001]

My local dive centre have broached the subject of a Divemaster internship with them.
I have not considered this avenue of diving up until this point.

So in a nutshell, is there a 'pros/cons', or a specific 'Can/Cannot do' list anyone can point me in the direction of?

This course sounds like it might be good idea in the longterm as it will give me access to other discounted training and certifications with the centre once qualified.
That said, i really don't like the sound of kneeling down in the mud with students much?

Is there anyone else who has been in a similar situation, unsure whether to embark on this fairly long commitment?

Thanks Samantha

Samantha,

I can't inform you about the limitations of being a DM for SSI. However, the role of a DM is generally to either guide divers or to assist an instructor with teaching.

I think if you're looking at this from a financial perspective then you may end up disappointed. Being a DM or even an instructor in much of the world isn't something that will make you a lot of money. At most it may help you to offset some of the costs of your hobby. At least that's what I've found working in the Netherlands.

The rewards, to me, are more linked to the passion I have for the sport and the ability as an instructor (in my case) to "pay forward" an be involved in some small way in passing along that passion to students.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

My main reason for not wanting to do it: potential liability.

Since you are in the UK, I suspect your tort laws are "similar" to Canada and the US. Dive professionals may be held to a higher standard of care should something happen to your buddy, a student that you are assisting with or a diver you are guiding.

I'm not a lawyer but actually, I don't think that's that case. The basis of liability is a duty of care. The logic is that if (1) someone has a duty of care AND (2) they either do or not do something in direct contravention of that duty of care AND (3) damages result directly because of #2 then you can be held liable in civil court. There is also a concept of "criminal" negligence but that's not what most people mean when they talk about getting sued.

The point is, there is no question of a "higher" standard of care ... either you have a duty of care or you don't.

Of course you can be sued anyway and in some countries, particularly in the USA the tendency to sue is very strong even if the chances of winning are low. I guess the attitude is that if you don't play you can't win. It's not called "the litigation lottery" for nothing. However, being sued successfully is another matter.

In my time as a diving instructor have actually declined to make a small number of dives because of this risk. In one case I was invited to go ice diving with some people who wanted to try it out. Not a single one of them was a certified ice diver. I am (IANTD) and I'm also an instructor (PADI), which would have made me the most qualified person on the scene. In addition I would have been one of the few (or maybe the only one) with liability insurance, which would have made me an obvious target for lawyers if someone got hurt. Since it wasn't a lesson setting I didn't have the impression that I would be in full control of the scene so I declined to go diving that day and I advised the group that I felt that their plans were ill advised and that they should contact a shop for training.

Clearly, if you have a bad feeling like this then you would be an idiot to go along, wouldn't you? ... And that's the crux. If you don't do stupid things then it's unlikely that you'll ever be sued.

R..

 

[Attonine]

I can only comment on PADI and my experience. Waterwork for me was pointless. I started DM with over 200 dives and living in a location where I dived 4-6 times a week. Point is, I was well practiced and not rusty in the water. I had absolutely no interest in demonstrating skills. It wasn’t on my agenda at all, and I have no desire to become an instructor. So for me, this side of the course was unenjoyable and pointless. As for Discover SCUBA, jeez, don’t get me started. I work in indistrial training and have a lot of experience training dangerous stuff in dangerous conditions, this led to a few head to heads with my mentor, who I wouldn’t let instruct anyone I know. I have over 20 yrs training experience, he had, well, I can count on one hand - utterly useless, very very bad at communicating concepts and ideas.

I did like the theory though. Especially the physics. This side of the course I really think should be essential for everyone. The dive planning is much more thorough. Calculating tank volumes etc. This is the knowledge I wanted, and the part I enjoyed and the part I think is valuable.

 

[Dogbowl]

I'm not a lawyer but actually, I don't think that's that case. The basis of liability is a duty of care. The logic is that if (1) someone has a duty of care AND (2) they either do or not do something in direct contravention of that duty of care AND (3) damages result directly because of #2 then you can be held liable in civil court. There is also a concept of "criminal" negligence but that's not what most people mean when they talk about getting sued.

The point is, there is no question of a "higher" standard of care ... either you have a duty of care or you don't.

Of course you can be sued anyway and in some countries, particularly in the USA the tendency to sue is very strong even if the chances of winning are low. I guess the attitude is that if you don't play you can't win. It's not called "the litigation lottery" for nothing. However, being sued successfully is another matter.

In my time as a diving instructor have actually declined to make a small number of dives because of this risk. In one case I was invited to go ice diving with some people who wanted to try it out. Not a single one of them was a certified ice diver. I am (IANTD) and I'm also an instructor (PADI), which would have made me the most qualified person on the scene. In addition I would have been one of the few (or maybe the only one) with liability insurance, which would have made me an obvious target for lawyers if someone got hurt. Since it wasn't a lesson setting I didn't have the impression that I would be in full control of the scene so I declined to go diving that day and I advised the group that I felt that their plans were ill advised and that they should contact a shop for training.

Clearly, if you have a bad feeling like this then you would be an idiot to go along, wouldn't you? ... And that's the crux. If you don't do stupid things then it's unlikely that you'll ever be sued.

R..

I would like to provide a more comprehensive explanation about the legal concepts of duty of care, standard of care, standard of care of professionals, etc. However, I am at work right now and do not have the time to explain the differences properly.

Suffice it to say that a dive professional may be held to a higher standard of care than a diver who is not a dive professional.

 

[tursiops]

I did like the theory though. Especially the physics. This side of the course I really think should be essential for everyone. The dive planning is much more thorough. Calculating tank volumes etc. This is the knowledge I wanted, and the part I enjoyed and the part I think is valuable.

And there are much better and more thorough ways to get this knowledge without a DM course.