What a DiveMaster Can (and Can't) do once qualified?

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I know this is a bit of a side-bar but I would like to offer my opinion on this.

To me, kneeling or not kneeling during OW training has several aspects that are important.

incorrect positioning
Kneeling causes the diver to be in the incorrect position to learn a certain number of skills. Chief among those are mask clearing and AAS usage. As a certified diver you seldom clear your mask while vertical in the water column and you will probably never initiate an OOA situation while sitting stationary on the bottom in a vertical position.

This is about what I call "specificity of training". In order to train most efficiently you need to train the way you will be diving. Namely, while swimming around. Every skill taught and practiced in the context in which students will ACTUALLY be diving pays dividends in the end result.

buoyancy control
Learning buoyancy control takes time. In the OW course students don't have excessive amounts of time. There are a few instructors out there who spend up to 50 hours in confined with students but most of the diving courses include more like 5-10 hours in confined. Teaching buoyancy control in that amount of time requires a very efficient approach. Every second the student is stationary on the bottom and waiting for something to happen is time wasted that could and should be put to better use.

Moreover, issues related to buoyancy control are strongly implicated in turning incidents into accidents. This isn't just a matter of something being "better" and that the student will eventually learn it after they are certified. This is a verifiable safety issue that needs to be taken seriously.

bootstrapping
Future instructors are learning today. If we expect training in the future to be better than the training we got (not all of which was horrible but some of which was highly inefficient) then we need to set expectations early. I have the entire Jacques Cousteau DVD collection and when you look at their diving it is ... frankly ... abysmal by today's expectations. My sincere hope is that my students will look back at their training and appreciate the bar we set for them as having offered a good foundation for solid diving and that they didn't need to learn it "on the fly" after being certified.

efficiency
I've mentioned this word a couple of times already but this is the crux if the new approach. We don't have a lot of time to train newbie divers and wasting that time doing things inefficiently is what separates good instructors from bad ones, good courses from bad ones, good results from the bad, good divers from the ones we all complain about. Making every minute count is important when you don't have a lot of minutes to work with. For example, my students NEVER kneel while they are waiting for something. They wait while hovering. That's not for my ego. It's so that they are using that time "waiting" to practice a skill that they actually will need. It's all about making every minute count.

finally
Finally, I have to say that as an instructor you have your eyes focused on the end result. That result is a process. In that process there will be times that students will touch the bottom. Maybe they will even kneel on the bottom. That's not a big problem as long as whatever they are doing in that process serves to achieve the best end result possible. Going too far with "never touching the bottom" can actually work against that result by spending time on things too early or in the wrong order, which can distract the instructor from the end-result. We've been seeing this happening in recent years too with instructors who started out well but now have to spend inordinate amounts of time in confined because they are taking steps that are far too big early in training and need all of that time to fix their mistakes.

The point here being that training neutrally buoyant isn't a goal in and of itself. It must serve the goal of making training more efficient.

R..
Yeah I do agree with all of that. I think we've discussed this before at length, along with Pete, Boulderjohn and others. I guess all I'm saying is that when I first cleared my mask while diving I didn't give it a second thought about having learned it kneeling. Just adjusted the needed angle. I've never been part of a real OOA situation, so can't comment. There aren't that many of the 20 or so skills that are actually done neutrally anyway--someone provided me with a list of maybe (?) 6. Included are of course reg retrieval, maybe unit doff/don (though not sure when you'd be doing that aside from on the surface or bottom). I guess the "turning off air" drill, detaching LPI, cramp removal--maybe a couple of others. Removing/replacing belt not relevant--if you do that neutrally you're not gunna replace it. My own feeling is that having students do as much of everything possible neutrally is reason enough -- not specifically for the improvement of those few skills. As you say, pool time in OW course is very limited.

Oh, I forgot one thing on my "DM" list--
I do believe that your skills obviously improve because you must get them up to "demonstration" quality. Your overall general diving probably doesn't improve much if at all by taking the DM course. Agree with others that there are way better ways to improve that.
 
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I think needing to be role model in all your diving improves it. I can clear, recover, hover, backup, remove/replace, etc. Most without thought, some because I will just deal with any issues that occur.

But always doing it smooth and effortless in a way that no issues occur, with out it being some script..., seems to require an extra level.
 
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I think needing to be role model in all your diving improves it. I can clear, recover, hover, backup, remove/replace, etc. Most without thought, some because I will just deal with any issues that occur.

But always doing it smooth and effortless in a way that no issues occur, with out it being some script..., seems to require an extra level.
Agree. I found it interesting that in assisting maybe a dozen instructors in my 4 years, how they demonstrated the skills did vary somewhat. And at times was not as perfectly slow and deliberate with all the steps as was required in the DM course. But they all got the job done. Real world vs. class, etc.
 
Herding cats comes to mind. If you are assisting in a class, the instructor takes the lead with the class following, mostly. You scoop up the strays who, for one reason or another, ended up going a different direction.

You could end up "taking the ride". You position yourself either, directly behind each student doing the skill, or off to the side of the instructor.

If you are behind, you are watching for the knees to flex in preparation to the student bolting to the surface. You lock up on them and prevent them from zooming to the surface.

If you are facing the students, you are watching the eyes. If they go big as saucers, then the knees will flex as before and the same ride happens.

Just some of the fun and games to be had.
 
I must've been lucky. In my 4 years assisting OW no one made any kind of move to bolt.
 
I must've been lucky. In my 4 years assisting OW no one made any kind of move to bolt.
Yeah, you were lucky.
 
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