WHAT!! you didn't buy from me!!!!!

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Everyone should reread original post. Scuba gear retailers sell products in an environment that allows for negotiation. Every business that sells products that encourage price comparison shopping will encounter people researching items, window shopping, kicking tires, whatever, that do not necessarily buy anything. Why do scuba shops make customers feel disloyal if they buy something elsewhere? Is it because they think we should be friends and educated consumers at the same time? I don't know if you can be both. My friends would never put a $900 price tag on a BC they were recommending to me.
 
djhall once bubbled...
Small dive shop ecconomics are a total mystery to me. I cannot understand how small LDSs can compete in any way with online and large scale retailers. For example, wholesale cost on ScubaPro MK25/S550 regulators is about $225. LeisurePro sells them online for $265, which translates into a markup of ~$40 per regulator. How many regulators can a small shop sell in a week? Not very many, I would think. I would assume the ecconomics on other items are similar. Against that, the LDS has massive inventory costs if they try to maintain any kind of selection, along with the cost of a storefront, insurance, utilities, employees, etc. I don't see how anyone, other than a large retailer, can possibly survive on that kind of margin. "Freebies" won't help here, because the "freebie" either isn't really valuable or simply reduces the shops profit through another method (ie. getting around pricing restrictions).

Two observations from this perspective:

First, it seems that many LDSs respond to this pressure by taking the position that they provide a valuable service beyond simply ordering and supplying gear. Depending on the shop, this may be true. And, depending on the customer, customers may be willing to pay more for those services. A true win-win situation for everyone. BUT, some shops DO seem to develop an attitude that THEY are doing YOU the service by selling you gear at high markup, and YOU are the problem if you don't feel they deserve it. I believe this attitude is the main reason people are treated poorly because they purchased equipment somewhere else. Of course, on the flip side, the shop doesn't OWE you service with a smile, either. I suppose, the shop could always tell you to take your gear for servicing somewhere else if you don't like the service. I don't find the frustration behind the "I don't need my LDS, they need me - I hate not having a great LDS" comments all that strange. They are just upset that they can't buy only the services they want from the LDS without the added guilt trip.

Second, what would happen if dive shops and the dive industry evolved to compete in the areas in which it is ecconomical for them to do so? It seems that stock gear is most ecconomically provided through order sales and large retailers serving large populations. When you decide you need a new regulator, is it really that inconvenient to buy one from LeisurePro? If you want to try a new BC, why not drive the hour or two to the nearest large city to purchase from a decent selection at reasonable prices? Why should a dealer need to invest tens of thousands of dollars to carry multiple brands & lines of dry suits in every stock size? Can't manufacturers sell dealers inexpensive sizing suits that are not expensive functional models, but simply a representation of the fit? Why not find a sizing suit that fits and order the real thing? On the other hand, who wants to send their gear away for servicing, to order a nitrox certification online, to ship tanks in for filling, or a million other mostly service and rental related issues? Why don't many snall LDSs simply loose the overhead and expense involved in gear sales, cut their costs dramatically, and operate as high quality service and instructional outlets? I would love a dive shop that only provided instruction, dive trips, service and repair for any brand of gear from any source, refurbishing of gear purchased on eBay, tank fills, rental gear, and advice on where to go to purchase gear inexpensively. All you would need is a filling station, classroom, and repair shop with parts stock. Am I missing something here?

Oh well... just my two cents.

Interesting ideas. Kinda what we're moving towards. The problem is the manufacturers won't back us in servicing unless we are dealers selling their stuff. Shops that give away training to sell equipment make it hard to make a profit center out of training also.
 
I know I'm a bit late for this thread, but I'll explain what did it for me as far as the dive shops.

I've been faithful on getting fills-mixes at this one particular shop for 5 years. Go there every single time. Know the guys somewhat. However, when it comes to buying, its like talking to a car salesman.

I asked for the price of a Sherwood Logic computer once, since my buddy purchased a new one online for a great price. I believe he got his for $180 something and the shop's quote was like $400+

Are they kidding me? That's over a 2X markup!!!! I've also tested them in other products, too, and the same thing.

Another thing that irks me is when you get into a technical discussion on products with a salesman who doesn't know what he's talking about but insists that he does.

That's what I love about this forum, you all arent' trying to sell me anything...everyone dishes out their raw opinions on products and everyone gets to the core of some great technical questions and problems. What a database of experience this is. There's safety in the numbers of opinions on a certain product, too. This forum is a blessing because I know for a fact that not even 10% of the dive shops out there can answer the questions as accurately as some of the experts here can. Dive shops either have a salesman who doesnt' know squat babbling off technical jargon, or a salesman who is trying very very hard to push a product and somewhat contorts the truth a bit. Especially when you ask a product to competative product question.

So I admit, I look out for myself only. When it comes to expensive equipment, I shop competatively and the internet always wins. For service, mixes, and cheap hardware, I always go to my LDS. I know this opinion won't sit well with some of you, especially the dive shop owners and sales folks, you just have to understand that we work for a living too, and if I can save a big %% of $$ on a piece of equipment, then I'll save it. I truly believe that is the common consumer mindset, too.
 
Let me ask the Floridians who have posted to this thread an honest question.

What % of the people that patronize the average dive shop somewhere on the Florida coast are locals vs. tourists?

I know that I've asked a ridiculously broad question and I'm sure that number is hugely different if you ask someone from Jax vs. someone from Key Largo.

Point is this...

Diving in New England seems to be a pretty tight-knit crew. Its a niche, although I would say active, market. There isn't (if you couldn't guess) a huge tourist market for diving in NE, which basically means that, in this tight-knit community, you are dealing with locals only...locals that dive together and share information vigorously.

Does this prevent poor LDS business practices? No, but it seems to me, based on purely personal experience in the area, that owners and staff are a lot more cogniscent of the fact that they can't simply gouge people with little to no repercussions.

I'm wondering if the number of tourists to Fla. simply makes this a difference between our LDSs.
 
Matt, thats a good question and I really don't know the right answer.

However, keep in mind that some cities are more local, and others are more touristy. My city, for example, gets a huge % of its business from local recreational and commercial lobster divers. Just like your area, a lot of us know each other and it is a tight knit crew.

We do get tourists here, too, but not people into diving. People who want to go diving tend to hit the nicer spots like Palm Beaches to the Keys. Our reefs in North to Central florida are far offshore, relatively low vis, and drab--exactly what the typical tourist recreational diver does not want to bother with. The Keys, South Florida, and other areas are way, way more tourist oriented. The reefs begin to blossom from Stuart south, and things become "prettier", hence the tourist diving increases. I can definately see that having a huge effect on the shop's attitudes. I mean, from Palm Beach to Miami there are a couple Divers Direct stop-n-go warehouses right on I-95!!!

Anyway, hope that helps a little. I'm sure there is a direct relationship as you mentioned. Especially in the Keys, since they know that they have you cornered on those islands, and that any tourist that goes there will fork over $$$ for a crappy snorkeling set to use for a couple of days. Everything is expensive in the Keys, though.
 
King Kong Matt once bubbled...
Let me ask the Floridians who have posted to this thread an honest question.

What % of the people that patronize the average dive shop somewhere on the Florida coast are locals vs. tourists?


The % will depend on both location and season. The two areas I'm most familiar with are the panhandle from Pensacola to Pannama City Beach (AKA Baja Alabama/Georgia) and the east coast between WPB and Ft Lauderdale. For the purpose of this SWAG I'll call "locals" as those close enough to the dock to make a day trip to dive. There are a lot of us relativley close to the FL coast who'll do a 2 to 5 hour trip to the boat, dive all day, and then drive home year 'round. We may or may not stop for dinner on the way home.

Traffic I've seen in dive shops:
Panhandle high season (Memorial day to Labor day and spring break weeks)85% + tourist.
Panhandle low season ~80% local trade.

SE coast:
High season (~Thanksgiving to Easter) probably 85% or higher tourist. Many locals will stop diving when the water gets "cold" enough to need a wetsuit thicker than a .5 mil steamer.
Low season (May through October excluding the first two weeks of bug season) Locals will make up about 50% of the business.

Shops in the Keys will see tourist divers about 90% of the time year round, but it's highest during lobster mini-season and the first two weeks of regular bug season.

West coasters, and east coasters north of WPB will be mostly local divers year round.

Cave country will be a fairly even split between locals and touristas. Cave addicts will often re-align their lives to move down there to be close to their favorite holes in the rock, so even touristas will be treated as potential locals.

HTH

FT
 
There are several shops in the Fort Walton Vicinity.

GENERALLY Speaking ...

Shops in Destin caters to the tourists.

One in FWB is more tech/locals oriented.

One in Valparaiso is locals mainly and located right outside an Air Force base so gets a lot of that business.

There is one in Crestview that I have never set foot in so I don't know what they are like.

IMHO something for everyone here.

subdude
 

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