WHAT!! you didn't buy from me!!!!!

[FredT]

But I have to agree with much of what Genesis says with respect to the shops in his local area.

There are lots of shops to choose from there, and all make a VERY high percentage of their $s off of tourists. The drive time between shops is measured in single digit minutes, even at high season. The local and repeat semi-local divers that keep the boats running in the winter are often very poorly treated at high season, then they want you back when the touristas go back north after Labor Day.

I had one shop in the Destin area we dove out of regularly for over a decade. The shop sold, and the first trip out under new management the new owners lost our business. There is one well-known shop in Panama City Beach I WILL NOT patronize, even if it means staying dry after a 4.5 hour drive over there. I will "put up" with a lot from a shop, but being lied to is not among the acceptable items.

I won't walk into a shop with a chip on my shoulder, but my business is theirs to loose. Treat me fairly, give accurate information on local conditions when I call, deliver what you promise, and keep your DMs grubby fingers off my gear and we'll be back and bring buddies. Lie to me, cut a trip short because the shop employees are playing grab ass instead of dealing with business, or give me a line of BS excuses I KNOW is wrong from the get go but may fool a newbie and not only will you loose my business, but my buddies, and THEIR buddies will hear about it in a hurry.

Price of goods and services is important, but integrity means much more to me.

IF the boat's broke, I expect them to tell me it's broke when I call and that it _might_ be back up when I get there. Knowing how boats work I may take the chance to drive over and I may not, but if I find the boat broke when I get there and find out it was broke when I called and they didn't tell me I'll assure you I will NOT be driving back. Neither will anyone else I dive with, and most of their friends.

FT

 

[King Kong Matt]

Genesis once bubbled...
The "you better support your LDS or you won't be able to get fills, nanananana!" trumpeters have taken a different approach. Instead of showing me value, they show me a threat.

That's a really nice way to endear customers to your operation.

NOT!

I don't hear anyone threatening. If buying online suits you better, so be it. God bless you and be happy. All I am saying is that your experience at the LDS is not universal.

Who in this thread is "trumpeting" (read threatening) about supporting your LDS or you won't get fills? If buying online suits you so well, then why the constant crusade against the LDS? Why aren't you content to let the rest of us live out our days in our obvious oblivion to the "reality" of the situation knowing that your smarter than the rest of us?

Again, perhaps your "typical" and your "reality" is exactly that..."yours". Can you not even agree with that?

 

[King Kong Matt]

FredT once bubbled...(coloring is mine)

But I have to agree with much of what Genesis says with respect to the shops in his local area.

That all is not right in the state of Florida I am more than willing to believe...

Let's just not generalize that experience to the point that there are NO good LDSs.

 

[Genesis]

NO good dive shops.

I'm saying that they are relatively rare in the marketplace, and that diver's willingness to put up with the garbage in many cases either contributes to or even causes the problem.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Genesis once bubbled...
NO good dive shops.

I'm saying that they are relatively rare in the marketplace, and that diver's willingness to put up with the garbage in many cases either contributes to or even causes the problem.

But that's not unusual in any industry. There are the average schleps, then there are the few who really stand out.

You get what you pay for. I pay more at my LDS because I get more from my LDS. The intangibles are worth it.

There will always be LDS' so long as there are some out there who want to provide good value for the money. You just can't get good personal service online (or at least I haven't seen it yet).

I disagree that LDS' that offer free classes if you purchase rigs are a MYTH. Its in writing on the class pamphlets. At the beginning of every class, the owner says "We're going to try to sell you gear. If you buy it, this class is free." I received the dry suit orientation course when I bought my suit.

 

[yknot]

In respects to LDS's in Florida, why do you think the service and prices are so poor? I would think that with so much competition someone would have emerged as a local standout. What this should show is that what we have been led to believe with basic economics- supply and demand, excellent customer service overcoming poor prices, etc. doesn't apply to scuba vendors in some markets. Incidently, I hope that everyone who is so strongly in favor of supporting their LDS own only a US manufactured auto. The same blind allegience to the "only game in town" mentality led to the domestic manufacturer's current state of affairs. Look at what some honest competition has done for domestic quality. Should different rules apply to scuba gear? What really upsets so many of us in regards to our LDS's is that they hold us in such low regard as consumers. I wouldn't be in business without WORLD CLASS customer service and it frustrates me to no end that on top of high prices I can't get anything except poor service from my LDS choices. And to add insult to injury some people on this board can only resort to the same tired excuses and justifications such as no more air fills, etc.

 

[King Kong Matt]

yknot once bubbled...
What really upsets so many of us in regards to our LDS's is that they hold us in such low regard as consumers. I wouldn't be in business without WORLD CLASS customer service and it frustrates me to no end that on top of high prices I can't get anything except poor service from my LDS choices. And to add insult to injury some people on this board can only resort to the same tired excuses and justifications such as no more air fills, etc.

Am I the only one seeing the irony here?

You don't like the LDS, you don't need the LDS, those of us who purchase from the LDS are doing so because of the "same tired excuses and justifications"...

and yet...

"What really upsets so many of us" and "frustrates me to no end", etc.

If purchasing online is so great, why harangue the LDSs and those who patronize them?

And yes, thank you, I have always bought and drove American.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

yknot once bubbled...
In respects to LDS's in Florida, why do you think the service and prices are so poor? I would think that with so much competition someone would have emerged as a local standout. What this should show is that what we have been led to believe with basic economics- supply and demand, excellent customer service overcoming poor prices, etc. doesn't apply to scuba vendors in some markets. Incidently, I hope that everyone who is so strongly in favor of supporting their LDS own only a US manufactured auto. The same blind allegience to the "only game in town" mentality led to the domestic manufacturer's current state of affairs. Look at what some honest competition has done for domestic quality. Should different rules apply to scuba gear? What really upsets so many of us in regards to our LDS's is that they hold us in such low regard as consumers. I wouldn't be in business without WORLD CLASS customer service and it frustrates me to no end that on top of high prices I can't get anything except poor service from my LDS choices. And to add insult to injury some people on this board can only resort to the same tired excuses and justifications such as no more air fills, etc.

Who has mentioned blind allegience to an LDS? I prefer the service levels I receive. Sorry to burst your bubble, but cost is not the only issue here.

I've come to the conclusion that the people with the most problems with their LDS may be involved in a self-fulfilling prophecy. You go in expecting a problem and, not surprisingly, you reap what you sow.

Incidentally, I do drive an American car. 2003 Mercury Marauder. Size for size, it'll smoke anything from Europe or Japan that even approaches it in terms of cost. Sometimes looking at the local guy pays off.

 

[TCDiver1]

yknot once bubbled...
Incidently, I hope that everyone who is so strongly in favor of supporting their LDS own only a US manufactured auto. The same blind allegience to the "only game in town" mentality led to the domestic manufacturer's current state of affairs.

Uh, where ya been yknot, that was 20, 30 years ago and yes it was a good thing. I'm trying to figure out how this compares to the LDS vs online store debate. Anyone else confused? Must be my tired old mind, making tired excuses for not understanding what your point is.

Here's a point, and again it's no excuse for LDS's with bad business practices, without the LDS, the online stores would not even exist today. What do you think would happen to the online stores without the LDS to certify the students who buy their products?

Ps: 2002 Yukon, not that it makes any difference in todays global economy.

 

[Scuba]

Just to clarify an earlier point.

King Kong Matt once bubbled...

As to whether "smart" business people treat (or should treat) all customers equally, I will respectfully disagree...I think thats the way it should be in theory, but as a shop owner, I am always going to commit more resources to the people who commit to me.

I fully agree with your point, there is no disagreement. I don't believe anything I said earlier contradicts it. Also agree about challenging, difficult customers. Thats a topic in and of itself.

I think we have this LDS discussion pretty well covered, here and in other threads. A point that keeps coming up though.

"I get 'this' free from my LDS."

Unless you walk in for the first time, and without buying anything, your LDS gives you free stuff or provides a free service in the hopes of enticing you back, (It is the duty of the business to attract and keep customers) whatever freebies you get are probably bought and paid for - bundling. This has also been covered in depth before. Whether the higher price you pay, as opposed to what you can pay somewhere else, is sufficiently compensated for by the freebies, services, and general possible conviniences associated with a local shop, is an individual determination, just as the opposite is also true.

There is a niche for those who provide value price and value service - with honesty, integrity, and tact. I think this thread is about lack of tact in customer service, something that is not the sole domain of LDS's. But it is quite prevalent in many businesses established by people who lack business training, as has been mentioned before. When the competition heats up, you need every bit of business sense you can get, and this thread illustrates that there is a number of businesses making some wrong decisions in their struggle to survive.