What's wrong with this picture?

[Ed Jewell]

A LDS participates in the PADI Junior Open Water training of a local chapter of "Sea Cadets" (think boy scouts only more ocean oriented). Anyway, one boy (12 years) fail both classroom final exams. Instuctor goes over missed questions with boy and boy signs off that he understands why he got the question wrong and now knows the right answer (sure he does, what else is he going to do, tell the instructor that he doesn't understand and watch his fellow Sea Cadets go off on their open water training with out him).

During open water training dives near disaster happens. This boy bolts from 20 ' of water to the surface. The instructor is wrapped around his legs to slow his ascent. Upon arrival at the surface, the boy complains of a bad headache and nausea. The instructor releases the boy to his parents and tells the parents to give the boy an analgesic for his headache and watch his condition.

OK, what's your opinion about this scenerio? Should the boy have been allowed to proceed to open water without mastering the classroom material?

What are PADI's current standards with regard to passing the final exam? What is the minimum score a student diver must attain?

Your thoughts and opinions please.

 

[The Chairman]

First off, if its Sea Cadets, its NOT BSA. Sea Scouts however, are part of the Venturing arm of the BSA... the minimum age is 14 and that is also the minimum age for teaching SCUBA in any Boy Scout related venue. Personally, I like that minimum as opposed to 10 or 11. Makes far more sense to limit the younger ones to pool diving.

The minimum score is 75% in NAUI, and I believe it is the same in PADI. While there are many who try to "max out" with younger divers, they really need to plan for fewer divers OR more DMs to watch out for anxiety. Seeing it early and making close direct eye contact will usually nip it in the bud.

As for the instructor, gosh its really hard to see all of the variables across the internet. Without an honest evalation, like knowing what score and seeing how the lad handled the pool instruction, it would be difficult to even hazzard a guess. To answer your specific question, I don't believe all of the classwork has to be mastered before you start your confined and/or open water. I know that I was not required to do so, and niether were my kids.

 

[VTWarrenG]

I think sniveling little twelve year old yard apes shouldn't be allowed to touch scuba gear, no matter how brilliant they are for their age. Twelve year olds aren't responsible enough to feed the dog everyday, much less take care of a buddy in an OOA emergency.

- Warren

 

[DivingGal]

NetDoc has answered your question about the min mark.

One further question "one boy (12 years) fail both classroom final exams." Both exams? I'm aware of only one exam, and the candidate must pass the exam, not just understand where they went wrong.

Originally posted by VTWarrenG
I think sniveling little twelve year old yard apes shouldn't be allowed to touch scuba gear, no matter how brilliant they are for their age. Twelve year olds aren't responsible enough to feed the dog everyday, much less take care of a buddy in an OOA emergency.

A tad strong isn't that Warren? The same comment can be made for any age. I've met some real stupid, irresponsible so-called adults.

 

[donacheson]

Originally posted by DivingGal
The same comment can be made for any age. I've met some real stupid, irresponsible so-called adults.

They shouldn't be diving, either. Unfortunately, some have been certified.

 

[icemyst7]

A child of the age of twelve that failed the exam should not have been allowed to dive in the first place. He should have been made to retake the course. I know that I would not won't one of my sons diving if they don't understant the written part of the program. Diving can be dangerous and could have cost the boy his life. As for the instructor it was a bad judgement call on his part for letting the boy in the water in the first place.

 

[Ed Jewell]

Diving GaL

When I was assisting in PADI training, I remember there being two final exams, Exam A and Exam B. If a student failed the first exam, they would review the incorrect answers with the instructor, sign off on them, then take Final Exam B. At least this is the way it was 10 years ago. Maybe PADI standards have change.

As for the training of 12 yr. old children. This is simply an accident waiting to happen. If I was still instructing, the only way that I would accept a 12 yr. old is If I had a look at his/her accademic record and would only teach the child in a private class with a parent or legal gardian taking the course with the child.

A classroom full of 12 yr olds bouncing off the walls!! Absolutely no way!! I don't care how many mask, fin, and snorkel sales my dive shop got out of the deal. :bonk:

 

[VTWarrenG]

DivingGal,

No, I don't think it's a tad too strong at all. Twelve year olds should be learning how to build campfires and set up tents. Twelve year olds should be learning basic algebra. They should not be diving. I haven't met a twelve year old in my life that was clear-headed, mature, and responsible enough to remember to bring his mask and snorkel with him to OW class -- much less perform complicated tasks underwater. Twelve year olds also don't grasp the severity of the danger they're exposed to underwater -- most twelve year olds believe they are invincible. There might be an occassional twelve-year-old gem in the heap that has the right stuff to dive, but it's hardly worth it to try to identify them. In general, I'd say twelve year olds underwater (especially two in a buddy team) are an accident waiting to happen.

- Warren

 

[DivingGal]

Originally posted by Ed Jewell
... When I was assisting in PADI training, I remember there being two final exams, Exam A and Exam B. If a student failed the first exam, they would review the incorrect answers with the instructor, sign off on them, then take Final Exam B. At least this is the way it was 10 years ago. Maybe PADI standards have change....

No they still have the two exams... and the student must pass with 75%. No pass, no certification.

Originally posted by VTWarrenG
... In general, I'd say twelve year olds underwater (especially two in a buddy team) are an accident waiting to happen.

I agree with you that. But I guess I've been lucky. The young divers I've met have been responsible, remembered their kit, and performed the required skills as good, if not better than their more mature fellow students (some of whom arrived at confined water and the open water hung over).

Twelve year olds also don't grasp the severity of the danger they're exposed to underwater -- most twelve year olds believe they are invincible

I've met more young "men" that follow this thought then 12yr olds. And They carry the "invincible" attitude at the surface too! scary

 

[Blargh]

Originally posted by VTWarrenG
Twelve year olds also don't grasp the severity of the danger they're exposed to underwater -- most twelve year olds believe they are invincible. There might be an occassional twelve-year-old gem in the heap that has the right stuff to dive, but it's hardly worth it to try to identify them- Warren

Or, to quote the immortal (imho) George Carlin...(i think it was)

"Kids are like everyone else.. there a few winners and a whole lot of losers"