What's wrong with this picture?

[VTWarrenG]

sea nmf,

Wait... wait....... you took a 12 year old underwater, and had him breathe your octopus -- and you think HE'S the cavalier and reckless one? I point the finger squarely at you.

In his defense, there's no way to evaluate someone's proficiency when a) they have not one iota of training, b) they have no equipment, and c) they're only in the water for five minutes. Personally, I don't think I'd be very proficient or comfortable at all if I was in just a bathing suit, breathing off your octopus.

- Warren

 

[ebbtide]

enuf of the 12 year olds already people
look at it this way at least someone is there to TRY to spend some QUALITY time with the preeteen to teenagers this is why so meny of them lash out and get into trouble is beacuse meny people think they are incapable of learning something new .
and not being trustworthy ! %$@# it spend 20 minutes and teach a kid something that will keep him outa trouble or even JAIL ,
ASK YOUR SELF this question !
if i was that age woulod i want other people to start respecting me , you know you did it was a confusing time for most teenagers . as far as them being able to handle a emergency once taught properly any KID / ADULT can handle a emergency situation.
here i am rambling on but i got a bit fummed on some of the opnions of the members of the board but IMO opnions are like noses ! everyone has 1 hope i havent offended anyone here but had to be herd !

 

[fredk]

the key word is mastery, doesn't matter if it is academics, confined or open water skills the student must master the skill not just complete it. i don't think age is that much of a factor as long as they master all requirements, as an instructor nothing annoys me more than taking someone elses students on open water dives and they have problems with skills that should have been mastered in confined water, if they master it in pool or confined water it should not be a problem in open water. i also agree i have had more adults that were brain dead than i have had with younger ones.

 

[neil]

Originally posted by Ed Jewell


This boy bolts from 20 ' of water to the surface. The instructor is wrapped around his legs to slow his ascent. Upon arrival at the surface, the boy complains of a bad headache and nausea. The instructor releases the boy to his parents and tells the parents to give the boy an analgesic for his headache and watch his condition.
OK, what's your opinion about this scenerio?

Forget about the 12 yr old issue. This idiot of an instructor deserves to get his ass sued off for his action after that incident. The kid bolts to the surface and he tell his parents to give him an aspirin and watch his condition?!!! What would have happened if the kid died of an embolism on the way home? What a moron. Of course, only in MHO.

Neil

PS I've had 12 yr olds score 100% on the NAUI test.

 

[Se7en]

No offense intended - but it does crack me up how every parent on here thinks that their kids are great


As a kid, I used to snorkle with my father. Being the arrogant little snot I was, I once asked him what the point of him being with me was, as I could outswim him by heaps, and could handle much worse conditions than he could.
His response was that his job was to stop me doing things that were too dumb before I started, not to rescue me afterwards.

He was right. And that's why I don't like the idea of kids (ie <16ish) diving alone.

As a 15 year old, I would have had both the theory side of diving, and the practical side down pat - I was freediving happily to 30ft plus, and had a good understanding of Newtonian physics - but had a lousy risk avoidance process As it was I had several Looong swims through entering where I couldn't exit again while snorkling, I hate to think what I would have done on scuba...

Another analogy - I could drive competantly by 14, yet the state wouldn't grant me a licence until 17. Not because I didn't have the understanding, or the driving skills, but because I didn;t have the judgement.

My view - diving under supervision until 16+
My view 2 - I'd rather have my (hypothetical)kids risking their lives diving than with drugs or wandering the streets.

Mike

 

[AllenG]

Can't speak for other certifying bodies, but PADI restricts its junior open water certs to diving with a parent or diving with a DM, AI, or Instructor. Which leads me to look with puzzlement at the possibility of a 12 y.o. and a 14 y.o as buddies.

At the risk of offering an astute observation of the obvious (sorry, but that's what psychologists do best!), I would suggest that the relative safety of a child under the age of 16 diving safely depends on (1) the child's personal disposition & focus during training and subsequent diving, and (2) the parent's setting and enforcing expectations/limits for safe diving. My daughter was certified at the age of 10. On her first post-cert dive with me and several other new adolescent divers (along with their parents), the DM set a max depth of 40' for the pre-teens & their parents and 60' for the others. When we hit the 40' mark, she pointed to all her friends with their parents at 60-80 feet. I made it clear that she could stay at 40' or stay on the boat. The child who is, alas, is so proficient at pushing limits at 1 atmosphere had to see that underwater, there is no flexibility in the limits set by me or the laws of physics.

While I bristle at all the psycho-babble of psychologists and educators re "improving self-esteem," you cannot believe the positive power of diving for a pre-teen. Diving isn't necessarily a safe option for every pre-teen, but when the right match occurs, it is a wonderfully uplifting experience for the child and a pleasure for a parent to behold.

 

[ElectricZombie]

He should have not been diving at 12. I think 16 is a more appropriate age. The instructor should have taken the kid to the hospital for liability reasons.

 

[Hooligan]

I don't know much about padi but if padi sets up their testing anything like naui if they fail the first set of questions then the instructor goes over the missed questions then they take a new but similar test. If this kid failed both test then he's not the sharpest pencil in the box. About the thing with the kid jolting to the surface, the instructor should have never let him near dive gear and probably should have suggested doing the pool and open water privately. People shouldn't judge the maturity and skill of the diver by their age, I was certified when i was 12. I got much praise from my instructor, kept learning over the years and now discuss instructing procedures with the people i work with (I've worked in a dive shop for over 2 years). So kids shouldn't be excuded from the underwater world, as long as they can handle the resposibility.

 

[ElectricZombie]

There may be a lot of very mature 12 years olds out there, I'm sure there are. When I was that age, I was more mature than most of the adults I know.

About a week ago, I was helping teach a class with 2 younger people in it, probably 12 and 14. These kids had the shortest attention span I have ever seen. It really took some work to get the points across. It is really much more difficult working with people of this age. The younger one wasn't doing too well in the pool but, the other was ok I suppose. Based on this experience, I don't know if 12 or 14 year olds are ready.

I still don't know if a 12 year old really realized the seriousness of diving. I also question the physical ability of a 12 year old. Several of the people that I dive with are huge, monster guys...265-350...not really all that fat, just big guys. I have problems with them while demonstrating rescues...towing a big guy 200 yards and then dragging him out of the water is tough. I seriously doubt that a 12 year old could do this. Still, I would look at the situation on a case by case basis but, as a rule, I would say 99.9% of 10-14 year olds should not be diving.

 

[jmsdiver]

While there seems to be a lot of attention directed at the age at which one can be certified, the standards that are in place for that process, and the parental permission, what disturbs me is the instructor in this situation just as much as the other topics.

I don't know the whole story and all the variables as Netdoc put so well, however why did the instructor (from the original question) just place the child in the care of the parents and tell them to give him an analgesic for the headache? There was no education as to what to watch for (this was an uncontrolled ascent) during the next 24-48 hours? Why didn't the instructor have the child breathe off the O2 kit for a couple of minutes until the symptoms subsided (I'm thinking a CO2 headache as in hypercapnia in which O2 would certainly help and being that it was an uncontrolled ascent I think that I would want to evaluate the child a little further based on my "lay" person training through a DAN O2 course)?

Furthermore, we do not know if the instructor followed the standards or not based on this "Reader's Digest" version of the account.

Just another angle, not that I'm dissing the other thoughts on this thread as they certainly hold weight.