Who hates their White Fusion Dry Suit?

[Eric Sedletzky]

Eric, thank you so much for the advise and recommendations. You have really helped me a lot.....I will take your advise and look in to a custom suit....thank you.....any other advise please let me know if you don't mind. Have you heard of or know about Nitrogen Cell Neoprene? Is that the Yamamoto neoprene? The wetsuit maker Wetwear talks about this stuff.....thank you again.

Nitrogen blown rubber was something Rubatex used to do. They were the original manufacturer of neoprene sheets and the material was intended to be used as interior auto panel insulation and sound deadening. Then two guys discovered it and made the first wetsuits out of it.
I had two Rubatex suits. The material was really tough and the foam bubbles were big. It was the last American made material that I know if. The company as we know it went out of business in 2002. Now I’ve heard through the kelp forest that somebody repurchased the company and is making the material again but the glue that holds the nylon skin on the outside is water based and comes off. There are a lot of rumors flying around and I don’t know what to believe. I know Wetwear had a video of the crush test in a pressure chamber where they put Rubatex up to other cheap imported material and the Rubatex only squished down about half way and the other stuff flattened out into something paper thin, and then never returned fully back where the Rubatex returned fully. And it continues to return fully every time. It was true high quality rubber where the others are blends and trust me when I say that the Chinese never have been very good at producing rubber products. But price and money rule the world so as a result we no longer have Rubatex.
I don’t know if Yamamoto is nitrogen blown or not, or if it needs to be. The Japanese figured out a long time ago that quality will win out over cheap quantity. You get either or, not both. I just know that the way the Japanese make stuff you can’t beat it. From Toyotas to Iwata airbrushes to Yamamoto neoprene.
How many cheap suits do people buy that they freeze their asses off from dive one and then claim wetsuits suck because they’re cold?
And they continue to buy cheap wetsuits looking for that screaming deal to save money and they continue to suck. They could have bought a really nice custom suit for the price of three of the cheap crap suits and had something that was actually usable.
And then the three cheap ass wetsuits end up in a land full.

 

[sfdiver140]

Nitrogen blown rubber was something Rubatex used to do. They were the original manufacturer of neoprene sheets and the material was intended to be used as interior auto panel insulation and sound deadening. Then two guys discovered it and made the first wetsuits out of it.
I had two Rubatex suits. The material was really tough and the foam bubbles were big. It was the last American made material that I know if. The company as we know it went out of business in 2002. Now I’ve heard through the kelp forest that somebody repurchased the company and is making the material again but the glue that holds the nylon skin on the outside is water based and comes off. There are a lot of rumors flying around and I don’t know what to believe. I know Wetwear had a video of the crush test in a pressure chamber where they put Rubatex up to other cheap imported material and the Rubatex only squished down about half way and the other stuff flattened out into something paper thin, and then never returned fully back where the Rubatex returned fully. And it continues to return fully every time. It was true high quality rubber where the others are blends and trust me when I say that the Chinese never have been very good at producing rubber products. But price and money rule the world so as a result we no longer have Rubatex.
I don’t know if Yamamoto is nitrogen blown or not, or if it needs to be. The Japanese figured out a long time ago that quality will win out over cheap quantity. You get either or, not both. I just know that the way the Japanese make stuff you can’t beat it. From Toyotas to Iwata airbrushes to Yamamoto neoprene.
How many cheap suits do people buy that they freeze their asses off from dive one and then claim wetsuits suck because they’re cold?
And they continue to buy cheap wetsuits looking for that screaming deal to save money and they continue to suck. They could have bought a really nice custom suit for the price of three of the cheap crap suits and had something that was actually usable.
And then the three cheap ass wetsuits end up in a land full.

You make total sense.....more people need to read your post.....I did some research and it does look like Yamamoto is a nitrogen cell neoprene. Your so right about the workmanship in many products from Japanese companies. Now that I think of it when I first started diving I am sure I had the cheap stuff I bought it when a shop was selling their rental stuff.....and I was only cold when the water dipped below 48 degrees. A well made wet suit that fits right has got to be as good as any dry suit. Once again great info......thank you for your knowledge Eric.

 

[runsongas]

yamamoto is skin in and unlined usually, which makes a large difference. semi dry suits get closer in performance. and there is no substitute for a drysuit when doing deco dives, even the best neoprene is going to lose insulation once you get deeper than 100ft. rental suits are also pretty worn out by classes generally, not the best indicator of suit performance.

 

[sfdiver140]

yamamoto is skin in and unlined usually, which makes a large difference. semi dry suits get closer in performance. and there is no substitute for a drysuit when doing deco dives, even the best neoprene is going to lose insulation once you get deeper than 100ft. rental suits are also pretty worn out by classes generally, not the best indicator of suit performance.

Thank you runsongas, I generally agree.....I have never been very warm in my dry suit even with a 500.00 undergarment....and skin in is really warm from what I have heard. When I dive CA I can't remember the last time I hit 100' unless I was on a boat. I am always envious of those I see walking around in their drysuit looking super comfortable, relaxed as if they are wearing street clothes.....I have never felt that ever! Currently I own the Aqualung Solafx semi dry......I have not used that in a few year because I have been using my drysuit. I am going to start with that for now and if I am not warm enough go look in to the others that have been suggested.

 

[lexvil]

Thank you runsongas, I generally agree.....I have never been very warm in my dry suit even with a 500.00 undergarment....and skin in is really warm from what I have heard. When I dive CA I can't remember the last time I hit 100' unless I was on a boat. I am always envious of those I see walking around in their drysuit looking super comfortable, relaxed as if they are wearing street clothes.....I have never felt that ever! Currently I own the Aqualung Solafx semi dry......I have not used that in a few year because I have been using my drysuit. I am going to start with that for now and if I am not warm enough go look in to the others that have been suggested.

If you never felt warm in a drysuit if unlikely you’ll do well wet In Monterey, try looking at Seaskin Ultra drysuit, custom made to your measurements, a multitude of options or the base suit which is ready to dive with no options.

I do like diving wet but not in Monterey, a few years ago I bought a Hollis, like your aqualung, pretty good for a wetsuit, I can just make 60 minutes but at that point I’m chilled through, biting hard on my mouthpiece and except for those days with sun and no wind there is no second dive for me, dryi usually do 80 minutes with a cold feel of the equivalent to about 25 minutes wet.

a different better fitting drysuit may be what you need, IMHO.

 

[sfdiver140]

If you never felt warm in a drysuit if unlikely you’ll do well wet In Monterey, try looking at Seaskin Ultra drysuit, custom made to your measurements, a multitude of options or the base suit which is ready to dive with no options.

I do like diving wet but not in Monterey, a few years ago I bought a Hollis, like your aqualung, pretty good for a wetsuit, I can just make 60 minutes but at that point I’m chilled through, biting hard on my mouthpiece and except for those days with sun and no wind there is no second dive for me, dryi usually do 80 minutes with a cold feel of the equivalent to about 25 minutes wet...a different better fitting drysuit may be what you need, IMHO.

I get what you are saying, I have come to the realization that me in a drysuit is a wreck.....I was certified in 94 in Monterey, have 100's of dives in Monterey and Carmel bay.....and only was a little cold in my wetsuit off the rack during a rental sale.....but I really thought going to a drysuit was the "good diver" progression. Since then when I have used either a neoprene or White Fusion dry suit I am chilled. I have on a few occasions switched back to a wet suit and was actually warmer. The issue with the Whites and being cold was I was using the MK2 jump suit and a base layer....it just was not enough thermal protection. I got all bad advise along the way....the person at the dive shop kept telling me when I would rent it to try it out and had issues..... that I would eventually love it...everyone does....and after I bought it and continued to have problem her answer was "well maybe sell it on Craigslist" what a jerk! Me and the White Fusion have been such a train wreck.....so hard to get on, when it is on I am so chesty I have a hard time seeing equipment down my front.....it is just not for me. Maybe a DUI.....but it is still a piece of equipment to manage and things to go wrong. I often think if I would have purchased a DUI and took a class, got good advise it may be different. After one last shot last Friday and still issues......I am so F'n done! Thank you for you help and advise.

 

[runsongas]

would look at a custom seaskin if replacing the fusion. and maybe some weezle undergarments while you are at it.

 

[Zef]

I get what you are saying, I have come to the realization that me in a drysuit is a wreck.....I was certified in 94 in Monterey, have 100's of dives in Monterey and Carmel bay.....and only was a little cold in my wetsuit off the rack during a rental sale.....but I really thought going to a drysuit was the "good diver" progression. Since then when I have used either a neoprene or White Fusion dry suit I am chilled. I have on a few occasions switched back to a wet suit and was actually warmer. The issue with the Whites and being cold was I was using the MK2 jump suit and a base layer....it just was not enough thermal protection. I got all bad advise along the way....the person at the dive shop kept telling me when I would rent it to try it out and had issues..... that I would eventually love it...everyone does....and after I bought it and continued to have problem her answer was "well maybe sell it on Craigslist" what a jerk! Me and the White Fusion have been such a train wreck.....so hard to get on, when it is on I am so chesty I have a hard time seeing equipment down my front.....it is just not for me. Maybe a DUI.....but it is still a piece of equipment to manage and things to go wrong. I often think if I would have purchased a DUI and took a class, got good advise it may be different. After one last shot last Friday and still issues......I am so F'n done! Thank you for you help and advise.

Sorry about all the problems you have had and I can definitely understand your frustration. The fusion drysuits are not the correct answer for everyone, as I stated in a previous post they work especially well for those who expect their body morphology to change, but the suit still has to fit comfortably to begin with. My wife is short and round and could not be fitted properly to a fusion suit, and others have expressed here on SB that they did not find it comfortable or struggled with donning the suit as you did.

One thing to note about drysuits in general is they are a lot to manage, especially when first adjusting to diving dry. There are more things to account for such as an extra hose, dump valve, inflator valve, seals, thermal undergarments, boots, injecting/dumping air, plus the air in the suit impacts one's ability to maintain body position and buoyancy until one learns how to control that bubble. Dry suit diving is not typically a "don the suit and go" type of product, at least not until one is well past the learning curve. It is hard to focus on warmth/comfort if one is struggling to maintain body position, and if body position is a mess then air retention in the suit (which is necessary for the undergarments to provide thermal protection) will be a problem as well. Then the fact that one is entering cold water just compounds any other issue as the cold is a major distraction.

Whichever suit you get, wet/dry/semi-dry be sure to get one that fits your body well.

Good luck.

-Z

 

[-JD-]

One thing to note about drysuits in general is they are a lot to manage, especially when first adjusting to diving dry. There are more things to account for such as an extra hose, dump valve, inflator valve, seals, thermal undergarments, boots, injecting/dumping air, plus the air in the suit impacts one's ability to maintain body position and buoyancy until one learns how to control that bubble. Dry suit diving is not typically a "don the suit and go" type of product, at least not until one is well past the learning curve. It is hard to focus on warmth/comfort if one is struggling to maintain body position, and if body position is a mess then air retention in the suit (which is necessary for the undergarments to provide thermal protection) will be a problem as well. Then the fact that one is entering cold water just compounds any other issue as the cold is a major distraction.

I am very glad I've been learning to dive my Fusion in warm to progressively cooler waters. Starting in a base layer and sweats and moving to a lite-mid weight jumps suit has made it all more manageable.

 

[Marie13]

I get what you are saying, I have come to the realization that me in a drysuit is a wreck.....I was certified in 94 in Monterey, have 100's of dives in Monterey and Carmel bay.....and only was a little cold in my wetsuit off the rack during a rental sale.....but I really thought going to a drysuit was the "good diver" progression. Since then when I have used either a neoprene or White Fusion dry suit I am chilled. I have on a few occasions switched back to a wet suit and was actually warmer. The issue with the Whites and being cold was I was using the MK2 jump suit and a base layer....it just was not enough thermal protection. I got all bad advise along the way....the person at the dive shop kept telling me when I would rent it to try it out and had issues..... that I would eventually love it...everyone does....and after I bought it and continued to have problem her answer was "well maybe sell it on Craigslist" what a jerk! Me and the White Fusion have been such a train wreck.....so hard to get on, when it is on I am so chesty I have a hard time seeing equipment down my front.....it is just not for me. Maybe a DUI.....but it is still a piece of equipment to manage and things to go wrong. I often think if I would have purchased a DUI and took a class, got good advise it may be different. After one last shot last Friday and still issues......I am so F'n done! Thank you for you help and advise.

Really sounds like you need a drysuit that FITS. I’m short and round. The L/XL Fusion fit okay, but while it worked for recreational diving, it didn’t work for tech. Several tech divers were telling me last year to get a new drysuit. Not so easy when you’re unemployed. The custom DUI makes a big difference. Better mobility, etc. I think any drysuit is easier to get into with thin undies. Definitely has been my experience.