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Who Wants Better Fins?

Discussion in 'Research & Development' started by TECreation, Oct 19, 2017.

What are the top 3 requirements for a great swim fin?

  1. Low price

    10.4%
  2. Low ankle stress

    7.8%
  3. Low effort

    13.0%
  4. Low leg stress

    22.1%
  5. Hign top speed

    6.5%
  6. Durability

    29.9%
  7. Ability to back up

    33.8%
  8. Frog kick ability

    51.9%
  9. Power

    54.5%
  10. Maneuverability

    59.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. TECreation

    TECreation ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Orlando FL
    96
    24
    I realize that. The point is that everyone in these videos is not hired by me, nor have I even met them before the video was shot. They are simply who they are with the skill set the have at the time. So let's not pick at the technique of these divers. Just look at what the fins can do. I brought up the buoyancy to point out that this person is well skilled in at least that aspect of diving so it should be presumed that she is at least competent in other areas. At the time that video was shot she had only had the fins on for 15 minutes and may not have been completely dialed in. I was impressed that she was able to helicopter, backup, and frog kick to her satisfaction without touching the bottom, or stirring up any silt without using her hands at all on a pair of fins she had never used before in 4' of water on the first try.

    On another note, since everyone seems to think frog kicking is so important I spent a lot of time watching "professionals" demonstrate frog kicking on youtube and found there does not seem to be any real standard. Everyone seems to do it differently. No doubt some of those differences come from the various fins used.

    Here is what I was able to capture which illustrated the basic difference between the classic frog and the MaxAir frog.
     
  2. TECreation

    TECreation ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Orlando FL
    96
    24
    Fortunately or Unfortunately, I dive in relatively silt free environments. I do have this review from PennyRoyal quarry in TN. So I'm told, it is quite silty at the depth he was. I was not on the dive with him so I was not able to get any video in the water.
     
  3. TECreation

    TECreation ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Orlando FL
    96
    24
    Great. I appreciate your comments. To be sure these are not for everyone. They were designed for recreational open water divers and suit that purpose perfectly. Unfortunately, they do not communicate on these forums. (or at all for that matter). It seems whenever I run into anyone with an opinion it is a tech diver. In effort to answer those questions I have been adjusting my testing and seeking out divers, such as yourself, to help define the problem.

    There is no doubt these do not go backwards as well as paddle fins. They were designed to go forward and go forward easily. I have been diving since 1970 and have rarely needed reverse. It is also difficult to understand why current training teaches divers to wrap fold their arms around their chests and create great amounts of drag while disabling the use of their best stabilization devices, their hands. Fish have pectoral fins for a reason. So should we.

    The efficiency, ease of use, speed, and power has been thoroughly tested and proven but that does not mean they cannot be improved. That is why I am engaging with you. If you will really give the fins a good shake and talk about them I will be glad to send you a pair. Since you are in the frozen north I am not sure how these will hold up in the cold since the material they are made of are not the final production material. The other issue is your shoe size. I only have Medium and Large. Large is for about a size 11 to 13 with a 5 mil booty. Also DEMA is occuring in about a week so I need all fins here for the moment.
     
  4. TECreation

    TECreation ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Orlando FL
    96
    24
    No. You are not mistaken. That last foray into Scubaboard was quite insiteful and I used the information I gathered to make improvements. I also ran into one of your members (an ex military diver) who wanted to tell me my baby was ugly but he happened to live only an hour from me so I took a pair of fins to him and he loved them after 15 seconds of use. He then became an advocate for the fins and started introducing them to the military and rescue diver arenas.

    What surprised me was how he was attacked as a fraud because he liked them. All I am looking for is a clear headed conversation and openness to try something new. If Jacques Cousteau didn't try something new where would we be now?
     
    J322Y likes this.
  5. undrwater

    undrwater Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Cerritos, CA
    2,709
    1,262
    There are recreational use cases for a back kick. Particularly for photographers and behavior watchers.

    A back kick allows a diver to maintain position in mild surge or current.
     
  6. kelemvor

    kelemvor Big Fleshy Monster ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Largo, FL USA
    7,020
    4,109
    That "classic frog" kick didn't look like much of a frog kick to me - it looked more like the diver didn't know how to do a frog kick.


    Any ideas on when you might get these into dive shops for folks like myself (recreational diver) to look at?
     
  7. TECreation

    TECreation ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Orlando FL
    96
    24
    There is the small issue of $300,000 required for the tooling to make the commercial version of the fins. This is why I am talking to everyone. I would hope to raise that funding through crowdfunding. It only takes 1500 divers at $200 each to get them each a "final" version of these fins. No-one is willing to take the risk without getting great endorsements or actually trying the fins first. So here we are. I have 5 pairs of fins and simply cannot get them to everyone so I am working on making a bunch more. Then I will start a road show where I will take over a dive boat in various locations and offer the fins for trial. Record the results and present them to you. The videos on my website is the result of early forays. There were certainly more people who have tried the but for various reasons I was not able to get video of them. I have published all of the videos I was able to capture and have not edited out any negative comments. By watching them you will see some have some reservations but usually it only is based on the fact that they have only tried them for a short period. Of all the people who have tried the fins the worst review has simply been neutral.

    How many reviews will it take before this group believes they are real? Honestly, there is no reason for me to claim something which is not true. If it is not true it will be found out. One cannot build a business on that.
     
  8. kelemvor

    kelemvor Big Fleshy Monster ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Largo, FL USA
    7,020
    4,109
    Well, I can respect your desire to make your product without selling out to a big manufacturer. I have to admit I'm not totally sold on the fins but I'd probably support a crowdfunding campaign at that price point. I can't find a link to it on your site, though :wink:.


    Unfortunately for you, many would be business owners and even successful large businesses have show up with snake oil on the internet and even scubaboard. The result? Folks just aren't going to take your word for it, no matter how many reviews you've got. Maybe if you had some reviewer that was trusted by the readers, that could be beneficial. Reviews don't really mean what they used to I'm afraid. There is a big business in selling fake reviews, "likes" on facebook etc... It doesn't cost much to get 100 reviews posted to your site that all sound believable. I'm not suggesting you did that at all, but this is why folks are skittish when hearing bold claims about a wildly different product without having seen it first or hearing about it from someone they personally know and trust. Ever hear of the Triton scam? Is Triton, The Underwater Breathing Gill, a Scam? – DeeperBlue.com

    None of that is your fault, but is is the situation for someone who is trying to bring a new product to market - especially without a big name on the label.
     
  9. TECreation

    TECreation ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Orlando FL
    96
    24
    Kelemvor,
    It appears your are in Largo. I will be in Tampa Thursday 10/16 and would be glad to meet and swim with you. Are you available?
     
  10. TECreation

    TECreation ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Orlando FL
    96
    24
    Don't respect me too much for not selling out to the big boys. I would do that in a minute. The problem is that they want me to do what I am doing right now first. They already know my fins are better than theirs. They have tried them. They just want me to bring them to market first then they would be willing to take the profits. I just want to make the world a better place. If I can make a little money on the way that would be good too.
     
    RainPilot likes this.

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