Why DIN Valves??

[kadleck]

And why do you need to remove a valve under pressure?

Maybe the reference was to accidental removal (turning the wrong knob)?

Don't forget there is now a third connector (similar to DIN, but larger diameter) - the DIN M26 nitrox fitting. This is a result of the European bureaucrats deciding that a different connection was needed for EANx tanks. This became law (in Europe) in August, so if you are diving in the European community and want EANx, you'll need the M26 DIN (I think the current DIN is M25, or 25mm thread)!

No doubt converters from M25 to M26 will abound.

The idea behind this new standard is to prevent a rich mixture being filled to a tank which is not oxygen-clean. This is flawed though, because there is still nothing except procedural care to ensure that a cylinder with the new M26 valve remains oxygen-clean - in other words, exactly like the M25 system.

It sounds like the UK (woohoo) are going to ignore this; the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) and the Scuba Industries Trade Association (SITA) are fighting it, citing that the M26 fitting is not required for safety, and will cause confusion in the diving community. The Germans (surprise, surprise) are embracing the directive wholeheartedly (as it was they, with a vested commercial interest) who requested the law.

 

[jtivat]

Maybe the reference was to accidental removal (turning the wrong knob)?

Good point I read it the other way.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

Lots of good info here...

Tech diving often involves using line, either to shoot a bag or to find your way out of the overhead. That line will always find a way to get wrapped around the knobs on a yoke valve, especially if you are using a stage and shooting a bag. Yokes are especially unwelcome on doubles because their knobs are the highest point on the diver and can become an entanglement hazzard, especially when swimming thru a wreck.

 

[Kaiser]

Maybe the reference was to accidental removal (turning the wrong knob)?

Don't forget there is now a third connector (similar to DIN, but larger diameter) - the DIN M26 nitrox fitting. This is a result of the European bureaucrats deciding that a different connection was needed for EANx tanks. This became law (in Europe) in August, so if you are diving in the European community and want EANx, you'll need the M26 DIN (I think the current DIN is M25, or 25mm thread)!

No doubt converters from M25 to M26 will abound.

The idea behind this new standard is to prevent a rich mixture being filled to a tank which is not oxygen-clean. This is flawed though, because there is still nothing except procedural care to ensure that a cylinder with the new M26 valve remains oxygen-clean - in other words, exactly like the M25 system.

It sounds like the UK (woohoo) are going to ignore this; the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) and the Scuba Industries Trade Association (SITA) are fighting it, citing that the M26 fitting is not required for safety, and will cause confusion in the diving community. The Germans (surprise, surprise) are embracing the directive wholeheartedly (as it was they, with a vested commercial interest) who requested the law.

Leave it to the EU to mess up a good thing. Germany just has that gift to make their live more miserable.

 

[String]

M26 i suspect can be safely ignored - its been "standard" for 5 years but ive still never seen one.

Even the UKs health and safety exec (who are normally the experts at destroying common sense and fun in all areas of life) say there is no benefit to this so it wont be mandatory.

All shops here continue to fill the older style and will continue to do so.

The MAIN issue is the manufacturers. The M26 move was spearheaded by Scubapro who are taking a no old-style stance and extortionately pricing parts to convert. Its mainly a money making scheme by manufacturers. Best just to avoid those companies.

Also it wasn't Germany that requested or embraced it. It was Brussels - the unelected eurocrat hall of shame. Just a committee designed to keep other committees in jobs.

Ignore M26. Its really a non-issue.

 

[kadleck]

Also it wasn't Germany that requested or embraced it. It was Brussels - the unelected eurocrat hall of shame. Just a committee designed to keep other committees in jobs.

DIN is itself German (Deutsches Institut fur Normung) It's widely believed that they (DIN) lobbied good old Brussels to change these standards.

I read somewhere (a BSAC forum I believe) that Germany has been using the new thread on their EANx tanks for some time (the test period started in 2003) - I'd call that 'embracing it'.

Anyway, who cares if Germany is embracing the standard (or not), as long as us Brits are ignoring it (as no doubt will the rest of the world).

 

[String]

I know what DIN stands for but just because it has a german name doesnt mean Germany is pushing for it. DIN write a LOT of standards not just diving related.

The new thread has been "standard" for 5 years but nobody has ever seen one. Its NOT a legal requirement in most if not all EU countries and as a result the old is fine. FWIW i know a few german divers and none of those have ever seen it either, most have never even heard of it.
Other than a manufacturers cartel headed by Scubapro most dive kit makers themselves dont even have M26 parts out. And this is 5 years after it came in.

Any shop that insists on M26 will rapidly close due to no customers and no kit to actually sell plus no market even if they could find some.

 

[kadleck]

I know what DIN stands for.

Well that's OK then. A lot of folks do not, I'll wager!

The new thread has been "standard" for 5 years but nobody has ever seen one.

My mention of this standard (which after a 5 year 'settling' period became an official EU directive in August) was no attempt at an argument; just a statement of fact, but BSAC appears to disagree that it is trivial. I've never seen one (and trust I never will), and it sounds like you have not either. This does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that 'nobody' has.

I sincerely hope you are right, in that the directive will be ignored. But EU history shows that many times individual countries (and as you say, manufacturers) will force the issue. Time will tell.

 

[AbyssalPlains]

One thing you should keep in mind:

DIN is superior to Yoke in every aspect, except one: availability. It depends on where you dive, but in the US and the Caribbean, yoke is so widespread that you will have to use an adapter a fair amount of time. And once you do that, you are actually worse off with a DIN reg, because now you still have the crappy yoke connection, but on top of that an additional connection and o-ring that can fail.

If on the other hand, you expect to find DIN pretty much everywhere you dive, then it's a no-brainer.

 

[String]

just a statement of fact, but BSAC appears to disagree that it is trivial.

Where have they said anything like that? I've not read anything in the NDC bulletins or the like about it. Plus BSAC themselves along with HSE and all members of the CDA said it was pointless.

Its not going to happen. Can you really see people with a set of regs and tanks for air and normoxic trimix and then a completely different valved different set for nitrox or trimix > 21% ? What if they want to dive EAN32 one day and then use 18/45 or something the next day? Are they going to change the tank valve in between?

Its a completely unworkable solution to a problem that doesnt exist. Which is probably why the UK government at least thought it was a good idea. Luckily it has no legal mandate.