Why does it seem some are so against soloing?

[Jim Lapenta]

I'm not exactly sure how to start this but last week I was planning a dive trip for next weekend. I had put up a flyer at the shop and no sooner was it up than the owner started to pick it apart. Some of the stuff I could understand(grammar, making it a little clearer as to what was going on etc.). I could understand if I had stated in there somewhere that I was going to solo dive but I did not. I merely stated that I was planning on going down a day early with the hope of getting in a night dive or two. I had to change it to going down and PERHAPS getting in a night dive or two with whoever wanted to go along. He even said jokingly(?) that if i wanted to solo dive I'd need to find another agency. "PADI does not teach solo diving" was the statement. I am a DM candidate and many of you know that I do not solo when students are present. I understand that some agencies are against it. I do not endorse or condemn it, neither do I advertise that I do it but if someone specifically asks I will not lie but do explain what is involved. I understand and accept the risks. Do I need to stop if my instructor asks me to? At least until I get my DM cert? I'm looking for a solo instructor in my area and have found only one but he requires two students before he'll teach it?:06: I'll keep looking just because I'd like to have the cert should an op require it. Or do I continue to do what I enjoy and what gives me relaxation and pleasure but not discuss it with anyone except other solo divers? There are alot of other things I disagree with as far as agency guidelines and recommendations but accept and follow them for the most part. I understand setting a good example but if I wait for a buddy to show up since I do not have a regular one I would not be able to dive as much as I like to. If students are present I understand but do I have to follow their rules when I'm alone? These questions are for solo divers on this forum and would like to know if you've encountered a similar situation. If you do not solo I respect your opinion but don't need to be preached at.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

As a DM or an Open Water Instructor, your students will look more closely at what you DO than what you SAY.

If you routinely go to 170' on air, they will make note of it. If you solo dive, they will make note of it. And word gets around, they WILL find out eventually.

If you want to do these things in your own diving, fine. But to do them as a DM or Instructor potentially puts you in compromising positions, particularly when your agency, shop-owner, etc. officially discourages the practice.

Along the same lines, if you want to do them then utter discretion becomes the rule of the day. To publicly display anything that could be construed as supporting a practice frowned on by your agency, shop-owner, etc. puts everyone in a compromising position. Are they supposed to turn a blind eye, and thereby condone by implication the activities they officially discourage? By posting anything that implies that you are diving solo, you're placing other people in a position where the things that you personally wish to do based on your own desires are impacting other people's positions. You force other people to be complicite in your activity. They KNOW what you are doing. You force them to either acknowledge and confront you on it, or to pretend that they don't know. People don't want to be placed in that position.

You aren't necessary guilty of "doing something wrong", but you are guilty of being indiscrete about it.

Like having an affair. Whether its wrong or not speaks to many facets and complexities in people's personal relationships. The answer could indeed be relative...

But to be indiscrete about an affair is ALWAYS wrong.

If you want to solo dive, then don't become a Divemaster who piously insists that solo diving is wrong.

If you want to be a Divemaster, demonstrate integrity and ride for the brand. Don't "say one thing and then do another". Your students will see through you in a heartbeat.

In fact you DO have to follow their rules when you're alone.

Or else, if you don't, you'd better be so utterly discrete about it that NO ONE knows you broke the rules.

Because if one of your students thinks it's cool to solo because his or her DM does it on the sly, and the student then goes out and gets dead because they did what they found out you were doing, their death is on you.

Dive however you want, its your life. But when you put yourself in a position where you're standing up in front of other people and students, you really are no longer in a position where you can dive any way you want to.

My .02 YMMV.

For the record, I solo dive.

I also do not teach, nor DM anyone, any more.

Best,

Doc

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Thanks Doc. I have considered that after getting DM if I choose to solo it may be necessary to go with an agency that does offer it. I see the point also in implied actions. Seems I've got some decisions to make.

 

[Rick Inman]

Jim,

If your profile is accurate, you have somewhere between 50-100 total dives in what will be two years of diving come July. Many people wouldn't consider this enough experience to solo dive. Right or wrong, you can certainly understand why your LDS would not want to promote duplication of this.

Sounds like maybe your shop is looking for people to lead others in a direction that they feel is safe, and you can't blame them for that.

Not saying there's anything wrong with you solo diving (done some myself), that's between you and you. I'm just trying to see it from your LDS's POV.

 

[waterpirate]

Hi Jim, my problem with all the agency's and lds is implied responsibility. if you are a dm candidate then you better represent padi or guess what? you may stay a candidate. I have said here before that even getting a rescue diver cert comes with an expectation from people below that cert, that they are safe diving with you, because you have been trained to rescue them. It is a slippery slope when you climb the ladder, people and big brother will certainly be watching you.
Eric

 

[wedivebc]

I will never forget one day when I was running a charter boat for a friend. I had a group from a Vancouver dive shop that consisted of an instructor and several students taking a nitrox course. The boat owner was along too as he was planning a personal dive. As the instructor was briefing her students the boat owner was quietly suiting up with his doubles filled with trimix and a couple of stage bottles. The instructor and students were aghast when the owner splashed in all by himself and immediately descended. The instructor immediately diffused the concern by informing the students that this person had special training and experience that allowed him to do that and although PADI did not endorse solo diving it was recognized by other agencies.
I don't know what that has to do with anything except I found it funny at the time. I believe there is no violation of PADI standards if you perform any level of diving within your training and experience. There is no more need to hide the fact that you solo dive than there is to deny cave divers or CCR divers their sport. PADI does not offer all levels of dive education, that doesn't mean they aren't happening.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Hi Jim, my problem with all the agency's and lds is implied responsibility. if you are a dm candidate then you better represent padi or guess what? you may stay a candidate. I have said here before that even getting a rescue diver cert comes with an expectation from people below that cert, that they are safe diving with you, because you have been trained to rescue them. It is a slippery slope when you climb the ladder, people and big brother will certainly be watching you.
Eric

Thanks Eric, I'm beginning to realize this more and more. It's one of the reasons I'm postponing my instructor path after DM in favor of more tech training. And no I don't plan on doing 150plus feet solo dives. It is that I want more out of my diving. Working with students is fun yet I also enjoy challenging myself beyond that. And not just with soloing. I have had other people say why would you dive this site or that one? There's nothing to see. Maybe not but when I do get a buddy that is at the same skilll level or higher we enjoy doing nav exercises in 3-4 ft of vis. Or practice buoyancy control and finning techniques less than a foot off of a silty bottom. Soloing is another of those challenges. I like to learn and tho I learn something from every class I assist with it sometimes does not feel like enough. I have experience in deep, low vis, cold water dives. I wanted to get my ice cert this year but it did not work out. I've done drift dives including one in a river where the vis was about three feet at a depth of 15 ft. Other people said no way there was nothing to see. This was at ginnie springs and I loved it! Trying to stay in control and avoid obstacles was fun for me. I have posted on this forum what I carry when I solo and now I plan and execute those dives and feel they are as safe as I can make them short of not diving. I know that most people only see what is going on at the minute and don't investigate further. I'm going to just have to be more careful if I decide to continue this. It does seem strange tho when other solo divers show up at the lake and we have to explain to newbies that what they are doing is not encouraged but at the same time they most likely have the training and experience to do it. Thanks again for the reply

 

[Robert Phillips]

<snip> a solo instructor in my area and have found only one but he requires two students before he'll teach it.

I find the irony of this extremely hilarious!

Good luck Jim.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Thanks Bob and everyone else. Yeah real ironic isn't it! I know the shop this guy sometimes works out of (not ours BTW) and it is mostly about how much money their instructors can bring in. I'd even be willing to pay extra if need be *** long as it was not double or something ridiculous like that but an extra 50 or so I'd have no problem with if the instruction was quality. Was quoted a cost of 150 for the course by the shop representative so don't know what all this includes because the instructor never called me even after requesting he do so just to find out his requirements and qualifications. Of course this other shop is mainly a shop that frowns on solo so maybe they really don't want him teaching it even tho he can. They have instructors from several different agencies but are primarily PADI. Any how I think I'm going to go with the don't ask, don't tell policy for now. Discretion seems to be advised in this situation as I plan on continuing to dive whenever I can.
Rick, I can see your point as well. I to have to look at it from the lds view and keep that in mind. It's not just soloing that I've been corrected on. I'm very enthusiastic about diving and sometimes get carried away with conversations about it. I've been known to recommend to someone other places to get stuff we do not have when they ask about tech gear and such. We currently do not carry a tech line per se and it's tough because as much as I'd like to buy exclusively thru our shop I'm not going to wait forever for the owner to decide on a line. I'm leaning towards Tobin and DSS for my next rig which will be for doubles. I also want a light from nocturnal and the owner is putzing around because someone is supposed to come out with a LED cannister. Fine maybe it will happen but if I can get what I want from Tim and not have to wait too much longer for a light that may or may not come out and more importantly at a price I can afford I have to do what is best for me. Selfish? Maybe but I got into this for me and my enjoyment.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Jim,

If your profile is accurate, you have somewhere between 50-100 total dives in what will be two years of diving come July. Many people wouldn't consider this enough experience to solo dive. Right or wrong, you can certainly understand why your LDS would not want to promote duplication of this.

Sounds like maybe your shop is looking for people to lead others in a direction that they feel is safe, and you can't blame them for that.

Not saying there's anything wrong with you solo diving (done some myself), that's between you and you. I'm just trying to see it from your LDS's POV.

Rick, profile is accurate I have 81 logged dives as of this date. I'll be doing most likel;y another 8-10 easter weekend. Then its off to Key Largo on may 1st for a week. 1st dive will be the duane and will also do the grove that weekend. I dive with a couple guys who have twice the amt of dives that I do and would worry about them soloing. For various reasons ie: equipment or lack thereof, lack of experience in wide variety of environments, and general attitude. they also have not taken any additional training beyond aow and that's fine for them. I have rescue cert with additional training in deep, uw nav, drysuit, nitrox, and equip specialist. I've done drift, night, low vis, relatively cold(46 degrees) and a cavern dive. I've helped certify over 30 ow students as a DM candidiate in addition to 9 jr open water, 2 jr advanced ow, 5 aow and 1 rescue. Also helped conduct a discover scuba for 43 college students over 3 seperate evenings. I'm currently helping with 3 other rescue certs which we may finish Easter weekend. I've got over 100 hours in the pool assisting with classes and two weeks ago did my first scuba review with my instructor strictly observing. Even got a $20 tip from the guy and was asked to do one for his wife at a later date. I would not be soloing if I did not think I could do it safely. I have the proper gear and know how to use it. If this sounds like bragging I'm sorry it's not meant to be. I'm merely stating these things because as we all know number of dives can be misleading.I had a guy tell me two days ago that he's got over 150 logged dives but does not have the experience I do as far as different situations and scenarios. Diving is not a sport or hobby with me. Ask my fiance, after her and my kids it's my passion. It keeps me sane and on keel. I get squirrely if I don't breathe compressed air on a regular basis even if it's in the pool. I've spent over 9K in the last two years on gear and training and I'm going to be spending more this year on stage bottles, manifold, BP&W, and regs. I've got 4 that I could put together but one is on my pony, another on the argon bottle and another is actually my son's when he wants it. So I need two more for stages, and at least another 1st and 2nd for my independent manifolded doubles I'll be putting together with two of the steel 72's I have. So you see it's not just a sport or hobby. It's a lifestyle for me. I'm a diver.