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DIR- Generic Why donate your primary?

Discussion in 'DIR' started by Boyan, Aug 29, 2018.

  1. Boyan

    Boyan DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Vienna
    64
    7
    8
    I am not sure I completely understand the rationale behind donating your primary hose.

    The main arguments seem to be:

    • You are encouraged to have a HQ backup regulator, since you donate your primary
    • You are encouraged to have a working, serviced backup regulator, since you donate your primary
    • You are encouraged to have your backup close by
    • You can neutralise your buddies panic faster by donating a guaranteed to work reg, instead of a backup where there is possibility for it to not work
    • You will not be surprised if your buddy takes the reg out of your mouth, since you donating the primary is part of the normal procedure anyways

    Basically the arguments can be boiled down to two basic points:
    • The system forces you to take backup regulators seriously, since your are going to be breathing them, not your buddy. It needs to be as high quality as your main, the backup needs to be easily accessible, etc.
    • On a psychological level, you donating your primary has a calming effect on your stressed or even panicked buddy, because there is proof, that the reg is working and has the right gas coming out of it, otherwise you would not be breathing it.
    The second point makes total sense.

    The first point is, where I get kind of confused. Is this the point or am I missing something practical? In one of the DIR videos Irvine says "You donate your primary, because you know it is working". That's great, but what if it turns out the backup isn't working? Why not donate the backup because you know it is working? You need to know both are working anyways.

    The only sense I can make of this is, that the system forces you to realise, that your buddy's and your own life depend on each other and to force you to have a working backup, which you can access easily. So its more psychological, than purely practical. Not saying that's bad though.

    Basically in a scenario, where my backup is not working, I fail to see the (purely practical) advantage of donating my primary. I am not panicked at the moment I donate and have maybe a couple of seconds to deal with a minor problem, but there is no advantage to simply calm one diver and than panic the other.

    It seems the main point is to force you to think of your buddy and to have a working backup. Or is there something purely practical not psychological behind it?

    The only other point I can think of is, that you can easily find your mouth and that is the fastest way to donate and since you are not ooa you have plenty of time to look for your octopus / backup, which should be on a strap. But I think this could be solved, you just need to know where your backup is and the result is the same no?
     
    the_ocean likes this.
  2. dlofting

    dlofting DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
    508
    419
    63
    You've pretty much articulated the reasoning. It's not so much that you ignore your octo or use an inferior regulator, it's that you're carrying it in a place where it can be more easily damaged, become filled with sand, etc
    That's much less likely to happen to the reg that is on necklace and just below your chin
     
    peocro, Boyan and flyboy08 like this.
  3. johnkendall

    johnkendall Tech Instructor

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: UK
    251
    340
    63
    The main reason, is that you know *exactly* where your donatable regulator is, and so do your team mates. Picture the following scenario. You are in a cave, there is a total silt out, so zero visibility, you and your team are following the guideline towards the exit, and someone has a gas issue that causes them to need a regulator. In this situation, the OOG diver can find a regulator if that regulator is in the mouth of their teammate. The team mate then simply grabs their backup from around their own neck.
    HTH
    John
     
    peocro, Jack Hammer, Ayisha and 6 others like this.
  4. rongoodman

    rongoodman ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Albany, NY
    5,272
    1,966
    113
    The other reason for donating the primary is that you know the OOG diver is getting a regulator supplying a suitable gas mixture. Not an issue for single gas recreational dives, but it might become one when you're carrying multiple gases on a technical dive.
     
    rjack321 and Lorenzoid like this.
  5. rjack321

    rjack321 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
    10,292
    4,707
    113
    You are making this way more complicated than it is... three reasons:
    1) you know where it is / buddy knows where it is
    2) you know that it is breathable for the depth you are at
    3) they are going to take it what's in your mouth anyway
     
  6. EireDiver606

    EireDiver606 Public Safety Diver

    1,364
    500
    83
    as @johnkendall said, there are a variety of reasons but the fact that you know where it is, it’s working.

    In an OOG situation, the OOG diver is of more importance than you at the moment since they have no gas. Your priority is them. Anyway, from what I’ve geard is that most will grab reg from your mouth anyway
     
  7. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Boulder, CO
    26,425
    18,738
    113
    I agree with the others, but I am going try to add some more to it.

    1. In the typical setup with a long hose and bungeed alternate, donating the primary is much, much, much faster than looking for, finding, releasing, and donating an alternate. Assuming the OOA diver is nearby, he or she will have your reg in about a second.

    2. There is no time looking for your alternate at all. It is inches from your mouth, hanging just below the chin. Some people (not me) are able to get it in their mouths without using their hands, just by dipping their chins.

    3. A donated alternate has to be able to be pulled free easily. That means it is made to release with little effort. That means it does release easily--including when you don't want it to. Reach for it and there is too good a chance it will not be where you are expecting it to be.

    4. The bungeed alternate is not intended to release easily, since it is used with the bungee that is holding it in place. Because it is not designed to release easily, it will be there when you want it.
     
  8. seeker242

    seeker242 DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Pompano Beach, FL
    1,376
    893
    113
    I would think it's quite practical to not be giving an OOA buddy, who may be on the verge of panicking, a crappy, old, hard breathing regulator, that might be dangling in the wind when he actually needs it. How many times have you seen this? Too many times to count! A necklace makes this scenario impossible. That's quite practical.

    ajciaGs.jpg
     
    EireDiver606 and rjack321 like this.
  9. Boyan

    Boyan DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Vienna
    64
    7
    8
    This is exactly what I don't get. I should know that both my backup and my primary have the correct gas anyway. If I could by accident grab a reg from a bottle with unsuitable gas, I could make the same mistake for myself. You need to to have 2 regs, of which you know where they are and what gas they are on anyway. "You know the gas" makes it sound like you may not know the gas of your backup.
     
  10. MaxBottomtime

    MaxBottomtime Divemaster

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: Torrance, CA
    9,297
    9,333
    113
    Your primary and backup are coming from the same tank(s). If you are carrying multiple gasses the regs for those would be bungeed to their tanks. You would never mistake one of those for the backup under your chin.
     
    EireDiver606 likes this.

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