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Why No Fundies for DIR Agnostics

Discussion in 'Basic Scuba' started by Ripple in still water, May 12, 2011.

  1. Ripple in still water

    Ripple in still water Contributor

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: East Coast, USA
    99
    12
    From what I've read about GUE Fundamentals, the class teaches a lot of valuable skills that one can only get a la carte from other training agencies -- if at all. For instance, I took NACD Cavern last month. A lot of the stuff I learned will likely be quite useful in OW diving. Yet, I'm not even sure where I could pick some of these things up via PADI classes.

    Propulsion techniques, for instance. Maybe wreck, maybe peak performance buoyancy? Better buoyancy/trim while task loaded. Maybe PPB, though I'm not sure to what degree task loading is part of that class. More practice in S drills, maskless swimming, and the like. Maybe rescue? But I don't think there's any PADI course that puts all that stuff together (except maybe PADI Cavern). If I understand correctly, Fundies does all that and more, and some of the more, like practice shooting an SMB, is important stuff that may not turn up in any PADI course.

    There are very few GUE instructors, though, and what if one wants to learn this stuff and doesn't live near a GUE guy and/or doesn't want to buy a backplate and wing? Why haven't other agencies put together their own "be a better diver generally" courses, or do these courses in fact exist?
     
  2. Peter_C

    Peter_C Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Santa Rosa, CA
    5,889
    741
    Well UTD has their Essential's class. They are another top notch training agency.

    Many people travel to find a GUE or UTD instructor. I guess we are really lucky having multiple GUE instructors around, with a UTD instructor also.
     
  3. kathydee

    kathydee Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: So Florida
    3,831
    389
    In Fundies - equipment, technique, mindset and team align to produce the streamline efficient GUE diver. I see no reason to stray from the source in an attempt to learn part of the well tuned GUE system.

    One small example: I would think it quite challenging to achieve the same control and comfort in a BC & some of the kicks would be impossible to do while wearing certain fins.

    GUE training is exceptional and IMO well worth making the effort necessary to receive.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2011
    Freezerbrn likes this.
  4. gsk3

    gsk3 DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: PA, USA
    1,060
    111
    Kathy gave two examples of where the equipment helps perform the specific skills you learn in the class. To add to what she said, in-control air shares are very difficult without a long hose. The final dive of the class, you launch an SMB, donate your air to a (simulated) OOA teammate, and ascent in complete control and horizontal, stopping at 20 and 10 feet. You just can't do that if a short hose forces you vertical.

    Other than a BP/W and stiff fins, though, the equipment requirements are pretty minimal. It's worth taking a GUE Primer or UTD Essentials class, even if you have to travel for it. I know other instructors who teach similar skills, but they require similar equipment configurations.

    Apropos, there are at least two GUE instructors on the East Coast. Where exactly are you located?
     
  5. nielsent

    nielsent Marine Scientist

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
    213
    36
    I have been told that NAUI intro to tech is very similar to fundies dependent on the instructor, and the TDI Intro to tech course was also supposed to be the equivalent to fundies or essentials. However, these are not DIR agencies, and would vary from instructor to instructor.
     
    Cacia likes this.
  6. Insta-Gator

    Insta-Gator Blaaaaagh! ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Venice, Florida
    27,850
    38,430
    I can understand the need for long hose in a cave or wreck where two divers can not pass through a tight space together, but in open water during the ascent, what is the harm in going vertical in an OOA or other emergency situation? I don't understand that part.
     
  7. kanonfodr

    kanonfodr Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Seattle, Wa
    1,486
    104
    The main difference between the other agencies and GUE is that, due to the strict agency-wide standardization, one can reasonably assume that a Fundies class in Hawaii with Jo Hjelm will be very similar to a class in Singapore taught by Gideon Liew, a class in Mexico by one of the ZG guys, or even a Fundies class in Florida with JJ. Not every agency has such standardization, and to find a PADI instructor who would teach you long-hose skills, doubles, or non-silting kicks you would have to thoroughly screen instructors or possibly even take 3 different classes from 3 different instructors.

    That's my GUE speech for the day. But you mentioned you had a NACD Cavern cert: you are likely more than halfway there to a Fundies pass, skills and knowledge-wise. My buddy for my bigger recreational dives in Hawaii had a NSS-CDS Cavern card and our in-water skills and thought processes were close enough that we both just made some minor adjustments and went on to go have some great dives.

    Peace,
    Greg
     
  8. elan

    elan DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    3,316
    379
    Just do a search about long hose. This topic was discussed three thousand two hundred and five times in the month of May only.
     
  9. kanonfodr

    kanonfodr Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Seattle, Wa
    1,486
    104
    Being vertical actually makes it harder to control your position in the water (all 3 dimensions) and it's more than likely that at least one diver in an OOG situation will be having bouyancy issues. If you continually practice OOG being horizontal and neutrally bouyant (thus in control) then it is more likely that the divers won't make a real OOG any worse by bobbing up and down in the water column.

    Going vertical in an emergency isn't necessarily bad, but having the ability to be horizontal and neutral without the regulator getting ripped from someone's mouth just seems nicer to me.

    Peace,
    Greg
     
    Kenny13 and Insta-Gator like this.
  10. elan

    elan DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    3,316
    379
    Here I know few PADI instructors who are as well tech1 or 2 certified with gue and they teach some of the skills in their ow classes
     

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