Why No Fundies for DIR Agnostics

[gsk3]

Being vertical actually makes it harder to control your position in the water (all 3 dimensions) and it's more than likely that at least one diver in an OOG situation will be having bouyancy issues. If you continually practice OOG being horizontal and neutrally bouyant (thus in control) then it is more likely that the divers won't make a real OOG any worse by bobbing up and down in the water column.

What he said.

To elaborate, being horizontal means you have much more surface area resisting changes in depth, which makes you more stable. Plus your most powerful tool-of-last-resort for controlling a rapid ascent is to kick down, which is difficult to do if you are vertical in the typical head-up position.

 

[tddfleming]

As a few already stated, there are some along the East Coast, you just may have to travel. Myself being one that must travel. I live in Va and will travel over that damn mason dixon line this weekend for a Primer class. While it is not ideal, I plan to make the most of it. I have heard nothing but good about my inst and I plan on taking everything I can from the class. I am looking at it just like anything else in life, if it is that good (and I hope it is) then it will be worth me going though all the ropes to get it. I have been stressing over this class, however, I spoke to the inst the other day to make sure I had everything I needed and just last min. loose ends. He was so nice and put me at ease over the phone. As I do not have my own bp/w so I can rent one from him, I am bringing 2 reg set ups already with the 7' hose, but still unsure what will work or not. He just told me to bring everything I have and he will help me and go though it with us. What more can one ask for. Just packing all my **** and hitting the road for a weekend all to myself. Since you are on the East Coast such as myself, you have FL and PA where you can find GUE inst. PA was a lot closer for me, not crazy about the cold water again, but I just need to suck it up. I will be happy to talk to you about it after this weekend, if you like. If all goes well for me, I will try to force my hubby into Fundies and I will take fundies next year. At least I know we have been trained the same, unlike now. Two mindsets, 2 ideas, and there is a lot of clashing UW and above. But hey, he is still above ground and has not somehow smothered in his sleep. I would put a smilie here but not sure where the hell they went

 

[TSandM]

When I took Fundies in 2005, it was really the only widely offered class that taught the things it teaches to a diver in a single tank, other than a cavern class (which has even more restrictions on where it can be offered, since it requires a cavern). Since then, a number of agencies have introduced their own "Intro to Tech" class, and some of them can be taken in a single tank. Most include similar ideas of buoyancy, trim, propulsion techniques, and possibly bag shooting. They will, because of the nature of the beast, vary more than a Fundamentals class will, but read katenptl's report of her Fundies classes, if you don't believe THOSE can vary. Even in GUE, the instructor makes a difference.

I started a thread a long time ago about why people don't take Fundies, and the biggest thing listed was the equipment changes. Although going to a long hose is an inexpensive and easy configuration change, replacing ones BC is not. I wish Primer had been set up like Essentials, and permitted other BCs -- as there is nothing about buoyancy, trim, propulsion or situational awareness that is unique to backplates. But GUE classes are designed to bring the student into the GUE system of diving, and standardization is a key, core component to that system, so they made that choice.

 

[Bob Sherwood]

The East coast of USA is a fairly well covered area for GUE. The Middle of the coast is a bit weak, but the North and South ends have several options. If you are close the the North/
South East getting into one should be as easy as making a call.
As for why others dont offer this type of training: There are many good instructors offering courses from all of the training agencies, however as a Traing Director for GUE I can tell you that creating quality Instructors is not the easiest job. There is a reason that GUE was created. No one else offered what it is that GUE offers in one package. That is the reason GUE has been so successful. There are others that are trying to offer similar options. FWIW, many of those that offer similar type training have been previously trained by GUE and are trying to spread the philosophy thru different avenues. Sometimes offering almost mirror image from what we teach and sometimes not so much. (buyer beware)
Most agencies offer what they consider to be improved diver traing programs, however the value of these tend to vary significantly based on perspective. Ultimately we as an industry need to support each other and try to help improve the overall quality of training. I think we are making good strides in that direction, although slower than I like but nevertheless it seems that it is getting better. Thanks, best, Bob 6077653942

From what I've read about GUE Fundamentals, the class teaches a lot of valuable skills that one can only get a la carte from other training agencies -- if at all. For instance, I took NACD Cavern last month. A lot of the stuff I learned will likely be quite useful in OW diving. Yet, I'm not even sure where I could pick some of these things up via PADI classes.

Propulsion techniques, for instance. Maybe wreck, maybe peak performance buoyancy? Better buoyancy/trim while task loaded. Maybe PPB, though I'm not sure to what degree task loading is part of that class. More practice in S drills, maskless swimming, and the like. Maybe rescue? But I don't think there's any PADI course that puts all that stuff together (except maybe PADI Cavern). If I understand correctly, Fundies does all that and more, and some of the more, like practice shooting an SMB, is important stuff that may not turn up in any PADI course.

There are very few GUE instructors, though, and what if one wants to learn this stuff and doesn't live near a GUE guy and/or doesn't want to buy a backplate and wing? Why haven't other agencies put together their own "be a better diver generally" courses, or do these courses in fact exist?

 

[tstocum]

I started a thread a long time ago about why people don't take Fundies, and the biggest thing listed was the equipment changes. Although going to a long hose is an inexpensive and easy configuration change, replacing ones BC is not. I wish Primer had been set up like Essentials, and permitted other BCs -- as there is nothing about buoyancy, trim, propulsion or situational awareness that is unique to backplates. But GUE classes are designed to bring the student into the GUE system of diving, and standardization is a key, core component to that system, so they made that choice.

+1 on equipment changes and cost. That's what's currently holding me back from considering a primer course. I've recently looked into a bp/w but the cost is just too much at the moment and add to that cost of travel and the class and it's an unattainable dream for the time being. I know I could rent a bp/w, but I feel there's no point in taking the class if I'm taught all these great skills in a bp/w and cannot afford to purchase my own and will still have to dive my current bcd once the class ends. Maybe the skills would carryover, but I'd rather take the class once I have my own bp/w so the skills I would learn in the class could be practiced in the same configuration I was taught in after the class ends. JMO

 

[gsk3]

I feel there's no point in taking the class if I'm taught all these great skills in a bp/w and cannot afford to purchase my own and will still have to dive my current bcd once the class ends.

One intermediate option is to buy a used backplate and harness (should be less than $100, or less than $50-60 for an AL), and just borrow/rent the wing. Then all of the tweaking you do to the harness during class will not go to waste. If you decide you want to go BP/W in the future (and you likely will), then you can sell your BC and buy a used wing for about the same price. The point is, harnesses need to be personalized; wings don't.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

If you are not looking to spend the cost of a Fundies class and would like to get instruction in many of the techniques I offer an AOW class that covers much of it. I also allow most gear configurations. Only prohibited items are Spare Airs, and if you have an integrated octo we will need to install a standard one on your reg. I can provide that.

I cover propulsion, trim, weighting, bag shoots, gas management, use of slung bottles. There is much more to the course. I can send the outline if you PM me an email. I only take two students at a time. I may add a third depending on their skill level.

There is 6-8 hours of classroom, 6 dives. All with heavy emphasis on buddy skills. In fact one way to fail the class is to become separated more than once. The last dive is Buddy Skills and Assist - an intro to rescue if you will.

Not observing all required safety protocols is another. I have had students travel from NC, Philadephia, and NW Pa. I have two coming from Cincinnatti in June. For out of town students I offer a three day weekend -Fri, Sat, Sun- with all day classroom (9-5:30) on friday and dives on Sat and Sun.

Cost of the course is currently $210 and includes all materials and cert fee. I also provide 95 cu ft tanks for the deep dive, stage bottles with rigging, reel, lift bag, and one back up light if you do not have one. Two lights per diver are required. I also now strongly suggest that you get a copy of my book to supplement the course but it is not required. Much of what we will go over is discussed in detail in it.

For info PM me or visit my website. You can also request a course outline. Just need your email.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

From what I've read about GUE Fundamentals, the class teaches a lot of valuable skills that one can only get a la carte from other training agencies -- if at all. For instance, I took NACD Cavern last month. A lot of the stuff I learned will likely be quite useful in OW diving. Yet, I'm not even sure where I could pick some of these things up via PADI classes.

Propulsion techniques, for instance. Maybe wreck, maybe peak performance buoyancy? Better buoyancy/trim while task loaded. Maybe PPB, though I'm not sure to what degree task loading is part of that class. More practice in S drills, maskless swimming, and the like. Maybe rescue? But I don't think there's any PADI course that puts all that stuff together (except maybe PADI Cavern). If I understand correctly, Fundies does all that and more, and some of the more, like practice shooting an SMB, is important stuff that may not turn up in any PADI course.

There are very few GUE instructors, though, and what if one wants to learn this stuff and doesn't live near a GUE guy and/or doesn't want to buy a backplate and wing? Why haven't other agencies put together their own "be a better diver generally" courses, or do these courses in fact exist?

I think the error in the thought process is that each skill/idea can be separated from the whole. Sure, from the outside it can appear that DIR diving is about being flat in the water or using frog kick, back kick, etc. But really the value comes from learning all the pieces (philosophic principles, and academic and inwater skills) and how they fit together, and that is what you wont get from other agencies. Sure, you can learn to be pretty proficient many places, but you wont get the detailed, nuanced instruction with other agencies that you would get with GUE. Further, standards are likely to be not as high in other classes, even if the material is the similar.

A recommendation would be to get a couple (or one) buddy and fly and instructor in to do the class locally. Fundamentals classes can have 3-6 students (to help spread out costs), and the class is absolutely one of the best "be a better diver" classes you can take for the money.

 

[tstocum]

One intermediate option is to buy a used backplate and harness (should be less than $100, or less than $50-60 for an AL), and just borrow/rent the wing. Then all of the tweaking you do to the harness during class will not go to waste. If you decide you want to go BP/W in the future (and you likely will), then you can sell your BC and buy a used wing for about the same price. The point is, harnesses need to be personalized; wings don't.

Honestly have to say I've never thought about purchasing used gear as I've always purchased all my gear new whenever I could afford it. I've been always hesitant to purchase anything gear related used, not knowing how it was cared for. But I guess a backplate really doesn't wear out. I'll have to think about this.

Thanks for pointing out an option I really hadn't considered.

 

[mikemill]

As far as the BP/W goes that may be a non-issue. Some instructors have spare BP/W that you can use during the class. I think the UTD Essentials of Rec is a good class to take if you are unsure of the DIR system. Fairly short class, low key and low stress. A good introduction to all the skills and equipment.