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Why not treat DCS yourself?

Discussion in 'Advanced Scuba Discussions' started by WetSEAL, Aug 25, 2018.

  1. doctormike

    doctormike ScubaBoard Supporter Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: New York City
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    Look, I don't know where you are coming from at this point. I don't think that you are trolling, maybe this is just your style of learning. You don't share any information about yourself or your diving since you joined SB a few weeks ago, so it's hard to know how to respond. Based on many of your previous statements, it doesn't seem that you have a lot of understanding of dive physics and physiology. Maybe I'm wrong about that, hard to say.

    I also started to reply to each of your points, but I just don't have the energy. As John has pointed out, each of them contains unfounded assumptions, but I'm not sure that you would accept my responses.

    Yes, in general an argument from authority isn't a great way of convincing someone. You should drill down on things that you are told and try to understand the underlying principals. But at SOME point, when you are trying to learn about an insanely complicated technical field, you have to assume that the existing body of scientific knowledge is basically sound, and that we weren't all sitting around waiting for you to look at it with fresh eyes and show us the error of our ways. If Doolette and Mitchell say that based on their careers studying this problem and based on these citations from the peer-reviewed literature that IWR is good in some cases but has some risks that preclude it in others, that actually means something to me. I don't need to go back to Haldane and Boyle and Paul Bert and redo it all myself.

    I learned how to dive a rebreather a few years ago. It was really complex, and I'm still constantly refining my understanding of this thing that is keeping me alive underwater. But I didn't do that by lecturing my instructors and experienced mentors and insisting that my random hypotheses, based on nothing more than guesswork with no background knowledge, must be all addressed before we can move on. I didn't insist on reverse engineering an entire field because I didn't like the standard conclusions shared by the vast majority of experts. I didn't say on day 1 of Mod 1 "I would think that 0.12 is a perfectly adequate PO2 to support life based on my understanding of mountain climbing, and I'm not going to accept the need for me to maintain a higher setpoint just because you say so".

    There are a lot of very experienced divers here on ScubaBoard, and they all are happy to spend their time helping new divers learn things. I really appreciate their input. But that doesn't mean that they are obligated to type out an entire textbook on decompression physiology to address every unfounded assumption that someone posts here.
     
  2. GJC

    GJC Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Southern California, USA
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    I wish there was a 2 thumbs up like button I could use for this post.

    I would like to add that I really appreciate the time you took to share your knowledge and experience here.
    I especially admire your patience and tone of your responses. It really motivates me to try to respond in a like manner when confronted with difficult situations.

    Thank you
     
  3. giffenk

    giffenk Great White

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: toronto
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    Is that a NO?
     
  4. kensuf

    kensuf Cave Instructor

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    The two IWR protocols that I am familiar with, respect, and would trust, last more than 3 hours in duration. One of them is 4.

    Even in nice warm 80° water, a 4 hour exposure will leave many people chilled.
     
  5. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Boulder, CO
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  6. rjack321

    rjack321 Captain

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
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    Yea doing an extra 30 or 60 minutes is not exactly IWR. It's "extra omitted deco after you are mildly symptomatic". Realistically in pretty cold water (<55F) its about the most anyone is going to do. If there's plenty of suit heat battery life, no tides or currents, the boat isn't getting run over by a freighter etc then perhaps 2 hours is plausible around here. That's a big stretch and requires some level of support and/or really benign conditions.
     
  7. krbailey

    krbailey ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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    Last month, I spent 5 days in the hospital and a total of 8 chamber rides (several 6 hours in duration) after a type 2 DCS incident. Without going into too many details, I was well within my dive computer limits - fatigue and dehydration were the main causes. I could barely stand, let alone get back in the water. IWR was totally out of the question. Fortunately, the chamber was a short ambulance ride away. I had DAN insurance as well as Travel Allianz though Delta. Including the extra week at the villa and a first class plane ticket home, my out of pocket expense was $0.00. I consider myself very fortunate and a lesson well learned. $160 vs tens of thousands. Let the professionals do what they are trained to do and ALWAYS carry insurance.
     
  8. Kevrumbo

    Kevrumbo Banned

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: South Santa Monica Bay/Los Angeles California, USA
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    By all means feel free to share with us your case in starting another thread if you wish . . .(was this accident just during your recent past trip to Cozumel?).

    FYI, your home state has one of the finest Hyperbaric Medicine & Emergency Departments in the northeast US. No Diver suffering DCI coming from Dutch Springs divesites ought naught ever consider having to resort to IWR, having at least Pennsylvania Medicaid and or Federal Medicare policies as basic automatic, ACA type gov't sponsored public health care insurance coverage.

    Penn Emergency Medicine – Penn Medicine
    Penn Hyperbaric Medicine – Penn Medicine
    The Hyperbaric Chamber – Penn Medicine
     
  9. doctormike

    doctormike ScubaBoard Supporter Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: New York City
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    I got bent at Dutch Springs! Was recompressed at Jacobi, but Penn is an awesome medical center. Good to know...
     
  10. Kevrumbo

    Kevrumbo Banned

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: South Santa Monica Bay/Los Angeles California, USA
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    Good to know about Jacobi being roughly equidistant to Dutch Springs too for potential urgent New York State inpatients & outpatients, and is also a 24/7 public hospital & trauma medical center affiliated Emergency Recompression Chamber that takes primary ACA/Obamacare, Medicaid & Medicare Health Care Insurance for DCI (supplemental secondary comprehensive Accident Insurance coverage like DAN is good to have as well, but in this instance you can get by with just primary ACA).

    Hyperbaric Chamber Location - Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy Treatment in New York City

    So IWR does not have to be a last resort option for tri-state northeast US area divers (unlike in North Florida Panhandle & Cave Country).
     

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