Why the placement of the Grim Reaper sign?

[CaveMD]

If a line was visible at the entrance I think we would discover that there are far more stupid than we realize. It probably would become a beacon for those "stupid", and seen as an invitation to follow the line in, believing that the line alone would provide safety to divers who are simply not aware of where the true risks lie.

I might be inclined to allow natural selection and heard thinning to take place if it weren't for the fact that it would bring unwanted attention to we cave divers.

 

[ucfdiver]

All this would do is attracting open water and cavern divers to follow the line to see where it goes. While most people do have a brain and would not go into a cave when not certified to that level. Some open water people would see it as a challenge to go somewhere they should not. I've been in Jenny Springs and have seen open water divers on single tanks enter the devils ear into the cavern zone then come right back out. Stunts like that can kill someone. Now put a line there and see what happens if these type of people see it.

Also may I ask if you are a cave diver. Just wondering why you don't like running a reel to the main line.

So what you're saying is that someone shows up at Ginnie, sees the cave maps on the wall, signs the diving waiver that states don't go into the cave, gears up next to the dangerous cave sign, and then see a #36 line and realize there's a cave? I don't follow that logic...

I don't like running a reel to the main line for the same reason no one else likes running a reel the entire cave dive (like old times), its a waste of time once it's already been done once. Aside from that, everyone who's spent much time in cave country realizes that cave divers don't often run primary reels at places like JB, Ginnie, Little River, Manatee, etc anyways.

The ironic thing here is that all the touristy spots where sites are monitored (ow divers can't have lights) are the only places in FL the mainline is cut back. Everywhere else I've been the line extends to open water. Better yet, we don't have silly jumps, everything is a T.

 

[PfcAJ]

All this would do is attracting open water and cavern divers to follow the line to see where it goes. While most people do have a brain and would not go into a cave when not certified to that level. Some open water people would see it as a challenge to go somewhere they should not. I've been in Jenny Springs and have seen open water divers on single tanks enter the devils ear into the cavern zone then come right back out. Stunts like that can kill someone. Now put a line there and see what happens if these type of people see it.

Also may I ask if you are a cave diver. Just wondering why you don't like running a reel to the main line.

Cavern/ow divers already do hero dives to the sign, and there is a 1/4 inch yellow line tied off to it. You're kidding yourself if you think they don't see it. Peacock lines extend almost to open water, as is. Let's be real...

 

[aHeavyD]

Jump to conclusions much? AJ said nothing about not liking running a primary.

Nothing against AJ. I was just wondering why he wants the line to open water

 

[aHeavyD]

So what you're saying is that someone shows up at Ginnie, sees the cave maps on the wall, signs the diving waiver that states don't go into the cave, gears up next to the dangerous cave sign, and then see a #36 line and realize there's a cave? I don't follow that logic....

Yes there are people that sign the waiver and go into the cave and not trained for cavern or cave. I guess you never seen it

I don't like running a reel to the main line for the same reason no one else likes running a reel the entire cave dive (like old times), its a waste of time once it's already been done once. Aside from that, everyone who's spent much time in cave country realizes that cave divers don't often run primary reels at places like JB, Ginnie, Little River, Manatee, etc anyways.
The ironic thing here is that all the touristy spots where sites are monitored (ow divers can't have lights) are the only places in FL the mainline is cut back. Everywhere else I've been the line extends to open water. Better yet, we don't have silly jumps, everything is a T.

That's your preference if you don't like running a reel or making jumps. Not everybody dives like that.

 

[aHeavyD]

Cavern/ow divers already do hero dives to the sign, and there is a 1/4 inch yellow line tied off to it. You're kidding yourself if you think they don't see it. Peacock lines extend almost to open water, as is. Let's be real...

AJ. I wasn't attaking you like some people might be thinking.I just want to know what's your reason to have the line to open water.

I now know James doesn't want to run a reel or and would like tee lines instead of making jumps.

A line to open water would be a beacon to the Stupid as gypsyjim stated.

 

[ucfdiver]

Yes there are people that sign the waiver and go into the cave and not trained for cavern or cave. I guess you never seen it

OK, are you discussing the cause of this, or that it happens? Because earlier you stated-

All this would do is attracting open water and cavern divers to follow the line to see where it goes.

This is what I was replying to. Sure, I've seen untrained divers enter sites like Ginnie, but this isn't the topic of conversation you opened up earlier.

Divers have been going in the cave without training since before lines were left in caves. Devils Eye doesn't have line in it, and I see more OW divers in there than the Ear.

 

[LiteHedded]

AJ. I wasn't attaking you like some people might be thinking.I just want to know what's your reason to have the line to open water.

I now know James doesn't want to run a reel or and would like tee lines instead of making jumps.

A line to open water would be a beacon to the Stupid as gypsyjim stated.

Who gives a ****?

 

[PfcAJ]

AJ. I wasn't attaking you like some people might be thinking.I just want to know what's your reason to have the line to open water.

I now know James doesn't want to run a reel or and would like tee lines instead of making jumps.

A line to open water would be a beacon to the Stupid as gypsyjim stated.

The entire purpose of the guideline is for it to extend to open water. What advantage does effectively forcing people to run a "primary" have? It creates a spiderweb at the front of caves, which any open water diver can see. So keeping them out is a poor argument. By not having the line come to open water, cave divers are apt to skip running a primary. I hate to use devils as an example, but scootering into the ear with 2 stages and a 20ft bottle while running a line is a real pita. It's even worse if you plan to exit through the eye.

So now weve got multiple problems (spiderweb, ridiculous pain in the ass, inability to enter ear/ exit eye)... And open water divers still dive to the sign and can follow the myriad of "primary" lines into the cave. End result is a cluster for no good reason.

 

[Jax]

AJ's arguement is logical. Non-cave divers know the cave is there. We cannot fix stupid.

Anyone else?