Why the red and white "Diver down" flag?
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Kharon
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Kharon
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@Storker
"...The generally recognized signal for "I have a diver down; keep well clear at slow speed" is the blue and white alpha flag. Except if you're in North America, where the red-with-white-diagonal flag seems to be the standard....."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Interesting question and a very interesting thread with interesting responses
The red and white flag was originally proposed by Ted Nixon in a short sentenced in "Skin Diver Magazine; a magazine for spearfishermen and divers " (SDM) in September 1957.
For the next thee years divers from the then centers of recreational diving submitted comments to SDM - but not a peep out of Doc Dockery "the father of the dive flag?"
By 1960 the smoke had settled and it was determined and universally agreed by the diving world at that time (but with no input from Doc Dockery "the father of the dive flag??") that the Red and White would be the "unofficial flag of diving."
It's official size was established in "units proportions" 5 unit wide X 4 units high X 1 unit stripe
In 1962 the first accident involving a diver displaying a divers flag was struck and injured at Long Point Catalina Island , California. I was the expert witness on the short history, use and acceptance of the dive flag in diving and boating. All the research the attorneys did and I had on the flag there was no mention of " Doc Dockery "the father of the dive flag???") It is suggested that you refer to post number 2 by @Lorenzoid to and read ALL the threads, then you might have some knowledge of the red & white divers flag.
As a result of this legation I was asked to write a few short paragraphs on the divers flag for the US Coast Guard Auxiliary for their boating safety courses and inclusion in "Chapmans boating and safety." (with out the assistance of Doc Dockery "the father of the dive flag????"
In 1969 (?) I was the first guest editor of SDM -"Signpost to safety" on the development and use of the red and white dives flag ((with out the assistance or a letter to the editor by Doc Dockery "the father of the dive flag?????")
.1984 (?) I received a frantic call from Dick Bonin , the co-founder and president of SCUBA Pro. An individual in New England had purchased the assets of a defunct jewelry manufacture who just happened to had produced dive flag jewelry and had declared that he and his company was the proprietor of the red & white divers flag. He had established against a SCUBA Pro dive shop Con Bell and a laundry list of defendants. I reviewed and submitted my records and recommendations. After 18 long expensive months of research and court appearances The judge declared the divers flag was in common domain with no apparent ownership (all this litigation on ownership with out a declaration by Doc Dockery "the father of the dive flag??????")
The previous comment represent only a few of the litigations and consults I have participated in during the last 60 or so years ...I could continue on
You and your country due to its location and weather were, late comers to the UW world... Therefore were not a participant in the design and development of the red & white divers flag.
Yes the red & white diver flag is American - as American as Mc Donald's or Coke a cola...Use it if you deemed necessary for your diving safety
@Storker "Unless you're at least a quarter of a century older than JYC, that'd be more than a tad impressive
"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am older than you think...I suspect I am older than you, your father and even your grandfather - Yes I began as goggler before Cousteau was introduced to the UW world in 1943- I wake up every morning (due to good genes and heath living ) read the SCUBA board and on occasion if deemed appropriate comment as I have today
The sun is up and shinning - It is already warm in California - where it all began-- time to walk my dog Lucky on the beach
Sam Miller, III
"...The generally recognized signal for "I have a diver down; keep well clear at slow speed" is the blue and white alpha flag. Except if you're in North America, where the red-with-white-diagonal flag seems to be the standard....."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Interesting question and a very interesting thread with interesting responses
The red and white flag was originally proposed by Ted Nixon in a short sentenced in "Skin Diver Magazine; a magazine for spearfishermen and divers " (SDM) in September 1957.
For the next thee years divers from the then centers of recreational diving submitted comments to SDM - but not a peep out of Doc Dockery "the father of the dive flag?"
By 1960 the smoke had settled and it was determined and universally agreed by the diving world at that time (but with no input from Doc Dockery "the father of the dive flag??") that the Red and White would be the "unofficial flag of diving."
It's official size was established in "units proportions" 5 unit wide X 4 units high X 1 unit stripe
In 1962 the first accident involving a diver displaying a divers flag was struck and injured at Long Point Catalina Island , California. I was the expert witness on the short history, use and acceptance of the dive flag in diving and boating. All the research the attorneys did and I had on the flag there was no mention of " Doc Dockery "the father of the dive flag???") It is suggested that you refer to post number 2 by @Lorenzoid to and read ALL the threads, then you might have some knowledge of the red & white divers flag.
As a result of this legation I was asked to write a few short paragraphs on the divers flag for the US Coast Guard Auxiliary for their boating safety courses and inclusion in "Chapmans boating and safety." (with out the assistance of Doc Dockery "the father of the dive flag????"
In 1969 (?) I was the first guest editor of SDM -"Signpost to safety" on the development and use of the red and white dives flag ((with out the assistance or a letter to the editor by Doc Dockery "the father of the dive flag?????")
.1984 (?) I received a frantic call from Dick Bonin , the co-founder and president of SCUBA Pro. An individual in New England had purchased the assets of a defunct jewelry manufacture who just happened to had produced dive flag jewelry and had declared that he and his company was the proprietor of the red & white divers flag. He had established against a SCUBA Pro dive shop Con Bell and a laundry list of defendants. I reviewed and submitted my records and recommendations. After 18 long expensive months of research and court appearances The judge declared the divers flag was in common domain with no apparent ownership (all this litigation on ownership with out a declaration by Doc Dockery "the father of the dive flag??????")
The previous comment represent only a few of the litigations and consults I have participated in during the last 60 or so years ...I could continue on
You and your country due to its location and weather were, late comers to the UW world... Therefore were not a participant in the design and development of the red & white divers flag.
Yes the red & white diver flag is American - as American as Mc Donald's or Coke a cola...Use it if you deemed necessary for your diving safety
@Storker "Unless you're at least a quarter of a century older than JYC, that'd be more than a tad impressive
" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am older than you think...I suspect I am older than you, your father and even your grandfather - Yes I began as goggler before Cousteau was introduced to the UW world in 1943- I wake up every morning (due to good genes and heath living ) read the SCUBA board and on occasion if deemed appropriate comment as I have today
The sun is up and shinning - It is already warm in California - where it all began-- time to walk my dog Lucky on the beach
Sam Miller, III
OP
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That'd be a rather impressive feat, as it would indicate that you would pass your 120th birthday no later than this year. For some reason, I find that rather unlikely.
Here is a link I found on Dockery. Dive flag history
@Sam Miller III. Does this all sound right to you?
Here is a cut and paste of the contents for convenience.
Discharged from the U.S. Navy on August 16, 1949 Denzel James Dockery began his newly acquired trade of Diving with a home built "SCUBA" rig manufactured from a plan published in an issue of the "Popular Mechanics" magazine. After serving a period of apprentice with his new equipment and now newly wed to Ruth Evelyn Carlson, it became painfully apparent that the "Baker" flag he had used in the Navy was not recognized by civilian marine operators. The "Baker" flag is a solid red DANGER flag displayed by Navy personal when there were divers at work nearby. "Doc", as he was nick named, was using the flag as he had in the Navy, but no one was honoring its presents. Together he and Ruth fabricated a "Red" flag with a white stripe running across its middle. This flag showed the same pattern when viewed from either side. The Dockerys soon discovered that their flag was a copy of a National Flag used by Austria. After much research the White Stripe was quickly moved to Run from the upper left corner to the lower right corner. The flag was a little more difficult for Ruth to sew but was a true original "DIVER DOWN FLAG". It did not represent any country or organization that they could find. The "Divers Flag" was born. The fact that it reversed its self when viewed from the back was a necessary but acceptable trade off. Doc used the flag in his work and promoted it through the "Cuadro Pescadores" Diving Club that they belonged to. During the early 1950's the Dockery's opened a "garage" Dive Shop in Flint, MI and sold the flag to local Divers. A sales representative for U.S. Divers named Ted Nixon saw their flag and offered to sell it Nationally while calling on his regular customers. With Ted's contacts the flag really sold. Ruth spent most of her spare time sewing flags by the hundreds. Meanwhile, Doc and the club members worked to get the flag recognized by the Michigan State Legislature as a means of protecting SCUBA Divers from marine traffic. Also, the newly formed Great Lakes Diving Council began promoting The FLAG to the Legislators of Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. Each of the Legislations in turn passed laws forcing penalties to be levied against Divers who did not use The FLAG but gave the Diver no legal protection against boaters while using it. Their efforts had "BACKFIRED". By this time many other companies were making The Flag and Doc & Ruth decided it was time to drop out of the picture and direct their attention to their growing Diving business. The Diving industry has rewarded them with a comfortable life style and a small place in the HISTORY OF DIVING.
@Sam Miller III. Does this all sound right to you?
Here is a cut and paste of the contents for convenience.
Discharged from the U.S. Navy on August 16, 1949 Denzel James Dockery began his newly acquired trade of Diving with a home built "SCUBA" rig manufactured from a plan published in an issue of the "Popular Mechanics" magazine. After serving a period of apprentice with his new equipment and now newly wed to Ruth Evelyn Carlson, it became painfully apparent that the "Baker" flag he had used in the Navy was not recognized by civilian marine operators. The "Baker" flag is a solid red DANGER flag displayed by Navy personal when there were divers at work nearby. "Doc", as he was nick named, was using the flag as he had in the Navy, but no one was honoring its presents. Together he and Ruth fabricated a "Red" flag with a white stripe running across its middle. This flag showed the same pattern when viewed from either side. The Dockerys soon discovered that their flag was a copy of a National Flag used by Austria. After much research the White Stripe was quickly moved to Run from the upper left corner to the lower right corner. The flag was a little more difficult for Ruth to sew but was a true original "DIVER DOWN FLAG". It did not represent any country or organization that they could find. The "Divers Flag" was born. The fact that it reversed its self when viewed from the back was a necessary but acceptable trade off. Doc used the flag in his work and promoted it through the "Cuadro Pescadores" Diving Club that they belonged to. During the early 1950's the Dockery's opened a "garage" Dive Shop in Flint, MI and sold the flag to local Divers. A sales representative for U.S. Divers named Ted Nixon saw their flag and offered to sell it Nationally while calling on his regular customers. With Ted's contacts the flag really sold. Ruth spent most of her spare time sewing flags by the hundreds. Meanwhile, Doc and the club members worked to get the flag recognized by the Michigan State Legislature as a means of protecting SCUBA Divers from marine traffic. Also, the newly formed Great Lakes Diving Council began promoting The FLAG to the Legislators of Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. Each of the Legislations in turn passed laws forcing penalties to be levied against Divers who did not use The FLAG but gave the Diver no legal protection against boaters while using it. Their efforts had "BACKFIRED". By this time many other companies were making The Flag and Doc & Ruth decided it was time to drop out of the picture and direct their attention to their growing Diving business. The Diving industry has rewarded them with a comfortable life style and a small place in the HISTORY OF DIVING.
Question: isn't the alpha flag meant for boats with divers below? In places where a dive flag is required (say from a float), is the alpha flag used?
OP
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As can easily be seen from the previous posts, standards vary across the world. But in my part of said world, the alpha flag is required for boats having a diver down. No matter if they're private or commercial. The red/white flag is seen on freedivers' floats, but hardly (if ever) in other situations (except outside diving centers).
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