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Will TDI shift to new cave training model?

Discussion in 'SDI/TDI/ERDI' started by CaveSloth, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. CaveSloth

    CaveSloth Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: The Deep South
    585
    195
    43
    NAUI and NSS both have shifted to eliminate Cavern and combine Intro with Apprentice into one course and allow graduates to penetrate to 1/3 of doubles. Will TDI follow suit?
     
  2. tmassey

    tmassey Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Shelby Township, MI USA
    541
    699
    93
    It’s funny. I always thought TDI had a pretty good balance. Cavern (3 days) / Intro (3 days) / Full (4 days). Cavern in singles or doubles for a simpler introduction (I’m going to pretend that Intro in singles isn’t a thing). 1/6 gas for Intro (though I like the GUE Cave 1 limits a bit better, though convoluted). I’d probably have made Intro the 4 day class, but not a huge difference. Small bite-sized chunks, with real, clear steps and real, clear limits removed at each level.

    The new setup seems awfully accelerated, all right. I know lots of students were doing cavern and Intro back to back (or Intro and full), but I was never a fan. Now, that’s just the normal course...

    The fact that combining classes was common was obviously what the market was asking for. This just continues that. But I’m still not a fan.

    Not that my opinion matters *any*. I wonder what instructors think of this — educationally and financially.
     
  3. dewdropsonrosa

    dewdropsonrosa Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Chicago, IL
    385
    629
    93
    The NSS model has compressed the number of levels (Cavern>Basic>Apprentice>Full to just Apprentice>Full), but attaining Full Cave still requires the same amount of training: a minimum of 16 dives and 600 minutes of accumulated BT.

    Cave Diver - NSS-CDS Training Program
     
    tbone1004, shoredivr and Caveeagle like this.
  4. CaveSloth

    CaveSloth Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: The Deep South
    585
    195
    43
    I want to be able to turn at 1/3 of doubles following the mainline after attaining the first level of Cave certification. That is what NSS and NAUI now offer. I have no intention (at this point) of doing full cave. I'd like to consider TDI as an agency but their first Cave course is limited to 1/6 of doubles.
     
  5. Manatee Diver

    Manatee Diver Stop throwing lettuce at me! ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: None - Not Certified
    Location: Tampa Bay, FL
    1,215
    977
    113
    The NSS hasn't really combined Apprentice, and basic. The new apprentice has a much tighter leash than the old apprentice.

    Old Apprentice:
    1/3 of doubles/sidemount
    130ft max depth
    No Complex Nav - One Jump Allowed
    Limited Deco

    New Apprentice:
    50cuft of penetration gas or 1/3 of doubles/sidemount whichever is less.
    1,000ft of penetration
    No Deco
    No Complex Nav - No Jumps allowed

    This actually ends up being a much more standardized leash, as 1/6 of AL80s is completely different from 1/6 of LP108s.

    Now the instructor with additional training beyond what is in the course can sign you off for slightly expanded limitations for a limited amount of time (similar to the old apprentice which was a stopgap between basic and full cave).
     
  6. tmassey

    tmassey Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Shelby Township, MI USA
    541
    699
    93
    I’m sure you do. And a 15 year old wants to drive their friends to the mall. When I was 15, there was a learner’s permit, then a license. Today, in Michigan, there’s now a whole series of graduated licenses. Why? To keep inexperienced drivers away from more dangerous environments.

    Odd that the new structure does the exact opposite.
     
    flymolo and Lorenzoid like this.
  7. CaveSloth

    CaveSloth Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: The Deep South
    585
    195
    43
    Ok, let me rephrase.

    I want to learn whatever is required to safely go to 1/3 of my doubles on the mainline.
     
  8. tmassey

    tmassey Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Shelby Township, MI USA
    541
    699
    93
    In the least time possible. That has to be added, otherwise why is the new structure more appealing to you?

    I’m sure it hurts to hear that. And you might even disagree. But it’s true.

    Once I say that out loud, then what do you think?

    I should be clear: that’s not a terrible thing exactly. I chose TDI because the cert did not expire, and I was worried about completing things in a certain time. My work situation changed, and it was easier than it might have been. Time is money. It needs to be considered.

    But deliberately. Honestly. And probably not as the first consideration. Despite your last-minute add on, your comments do not seem to be in line with that.

    OK, sermon over. I’ve got nothing to contribute here. I would be curious to hear actual instructors’ thoughts on the changes, not just us in the audience...
     
    azstinger11 likes this.
  9. CaveSloth

    CaveSloth Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: The Deep South
    585
    195
    43
    If it takes an extra day or two then I’m fine with that. Just want to pay for one course and learn what I need to learn to dive how I want to dive.
     
  10. CaveSloth

    CaveSloth Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: The Deep South
    585
    195
    43
    I seek training from a respected agency and plan to stay within the limits of that training. Thanks for the feedback.
     

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