Worst trend in Scuba Diving instruction many of us have ever seen...Avoid Groupon!

[FM1520]

Again, most if not all of this has nothing to do with Groupon, this is a dive shop, dive instructor and dive agency problem. I'm sure these people treat all their customers this way regardless of how/what they pay.

 

[danvolker]

I think the issue is the concept of "the volume discount" and what this will mean at most dive shops --in order to offer a volume discount in training....in order to sell something already priced low to move, and now sell it for 1/4, what will most shops give up in quality of service and training? There are areas Groupon can be applied where it won't matter if service suffers--you just wait in line longer, etc...Diving is not the place for things being omitted in order to accommodate the drastically lower prices per person. So I have said my piece on this, you can paint it as if Groupon is blameless and not involved in any way if you want....I am happy enough that some new divers will read this thread, and see my perspective, along with yours.

 

[MrChen]

To me this was about the disturbing cultural changes that have occurred in the last 20 years....In the 70's, the thinking was to give first time dive students the best and most complete training possible, and to mandate real skills and abilities to handle actual emergency scenarios, including harrassment drills.
Today we have come to a different place...one where the thinking is that it is not really desirable to train thoroughly or comprehensively for OW I divers, but to get them in cheaply, easily, and to make it so that almost anyone with a credit card can pass. This is today's reality.

There has been a Trend over more than 2 decades, in which skill levels of divers just out of OW1, have been relaxed more and more, and in which even the skills of a growing percentage of instructors teaching these classes has become lower....

This makes Groupon something like an ANABOLIC STEROID for turning out high volume and lower quality divers.....Groupon won't make all instructors degrade their class quality and it won't make all student divers worse on graduation--just as Anabolic Steroids won't make all Weight Lifters big---there are plenty of gym rats that have tried in vain to get big with steroids, but found they just don't have the genes for BIG.

And so I have met Instructors from some Dive Shops that DO turn out good certified divers with Groupon.....but to me this is like seeing the Steroid is just not working on them--they refuse to lose quality, and the Groupon has no real effect on them....but as with Steroids, a great many people WILL be EFFECTED with Groupon.....and there may well be long term health risks

Then the exact same thing can be said about anything which makes it more affordable or easier to buy. So lets also blame credit cards, ATM machines prior to that, lower cost equipment, and while we're at it, lets include the internet because it's easier to price shop. Telephones can make it easier to price shop too, lets not leave that off the list.

I can't say anything about what it used to be like. But like anything in life, I had to walk 1 mile and half to school rain or shine. My parents walked barefoot in the snow. My kids get a ride every morning. Such is life and we all have to start somewhere. I will say that I wasn't very impressed with the AOW course. I felt like I'd come away with a lot more knowledge. Sure, I learned, but it wasn't a challenging course. My OW course was exponentially harder. This had nothing to do with the instructors either. My AOW instructor is competent and just teaching the material expected.

 

[gypsyjim]

"There is no product or service that some man can not make a little cheaper, and sell for a little less, and he who shops by price alone is that man's lawful prey."

Not the direct quote, as I did not find the original source, but to say that deep discount coupons do not have a negative on quality is to deliberately blind one's self to reality.

Is the goal of a coupon company such as groupon to deliberately lower quality? No,probably not, but once a retailer is faced with the bottom line of a vastly decreased "price", the temptation and pressure to find a way to lower the actual cost of that product or service to reflect the lowered $$ being paid for that product, becomes nearly irresistible.

 

[tech_diver]

While everyone takes Groupon’s name in vain, keep in mind that a bad promotion doesn’t need Groupon. A retailer might look at the fees associated with a Groupon promo and decide it’s not a good value. They could then purchase their own mailing list from a marketing company, print their own e-coupon and create a PR disaster without Groupon (not that I’m attacking or promoting Groupon, I don’t know enough about their fees to say one way or another.)
It’s a cliché in the service industry that if the customer has a good experience they’ll tell a friend. If they have a bad experience they will tell ten friends. But now, they can tell thousands of friends. A promotional event that goes badly for the customer leaves the business owner not just with the expense of a promo and the hit to the bottom line from offering a discount but the magnified negative social effect reaches people on a scale that would cost thousands of advertising dollars. A bad promo event is far worse that no event at all.
The business owner also has to consider the equation from his side. What can I afford to give away or discount and still have the profit to pay the electric bill while providing good service? What can I do so effectively that people will fall in love and come back?

 

[Tortuga68]

This makes Groupon something like an ANABOLIC STEROID

So GI3 would approve then?

 

[gypsyjim]

While everyone takes Groupon’s name in vain, keep in mind that a bad promotion doesn’t need Groupon. A retailer might look at the fees associated with a Groupon promo and decide it’s not a good value. They could then purchase their own mailing list from a marketing company, print their own e-coupon and create a PR disaster without Groupon (not that I’m attacking or promoting Groupon, I don’t know enough about their fees to say one way or another.)
It’s a cliché in the service industry that if the customer has a good experience they’ll tell a friend. If they have a bad experience they will tell ten friends. But now, they can tell thousands of friends. A promotional event that goes badly for the customer leaves the business owner not just with the expense of a promo and the hit to the bottom line from offering a discount but the magnified negative social effect reaches people on a scale that would cost thousands of advertising dollars. A bad promo event is far worse that no event at all.
The business owner also has to consider the equation from his side. What can I afford to give away or discount and still have the profit to pay the electric bill while providing good service? What can I do so effectively that people will fall in love and come back?

While I was not speaking directly of any specific brand, like Groupon, what you are saying is pretty much my take on sales, discounts, and coupons.

While coupons and "sales" can be very effective marketing tools, for specific products or services, they can also both significantly depress the bottom line of a business, and attract a lot of negative attention if what you deliver is inferior.

 

[nimoh]

blaming groupon from poor scuba instruction is like blaming a newspaper for getting sour milk from a grocery store

 

[The Chairman]

blaming groupon from poor scuba instruction is like blaming a newspaper for getting sour milk from a grocery store

Tru dat. But then I wouldn't choose a heart surgeon giving out a Groupon either.

 

[flots am]

blaming groupon from poor scuba instruction is like blaming a newspaper for getting sour milk from a grocery store

Milk has an expiration date and a manufacturer's name and it's illegal to sell if expired or spoiled.

The laws of finance are still in effect. If a vendor (any sort of vendor) is only getting half their normal price (groupon's cut is about 50%), you're pretty much guaranteed that something is going to get cut somewhere.

flots.