Wow! I need some specific advice!

[SterlingDiver]

.....and let him know I was interested in the 380's not 190's. I let him know again that I was buying 4 sets by x-mas and another 3 in the next 6 months. I told him I was going to shop around including online and asked him to price out 4 regs, octos, 3 gauge consoles, reg. bags. He still came in more than 30% ($1200 difference) higher online.

I visited a second LDS that I haven't been to in about a year. Layed out the same scenerio about purchasing before x-mas and that I was looking for a relationship with a local shop. I told them I will be spending around $10,000 in the next 12 months and that I wasn't willing to pay retail. They carried several brands, which is new since my last trip. They still quoted me about 30-40% over LP. In frustration I nicely told them I would take my chances online. With that they replied their tech would be happy to service what ever I buy. (wow! that seems different, but realistic, though I can't imaginge them not being willing to sale that much equipment for a more reasonable price and make the profit there)

With that said, I am going to take my chances online and have the 2nd LDS service my gear.

I guess what is left of the "pseudo free market" dive industry will eventually work itself out. Unfortunatly I think it will be at the demise of the LDS.

Thanks for all your good advice.

SterlingDiver

 

[Tavi]

Hi Sterling,

Ask about service fees.

Our shop charges $15 per stage if you bought it from us.
$25 per stage if you bought it elswhere. Also with some regs bought through authorized dealers parts are free for life. If you have to pay for the parts that can add up too!!

Maybe that 30% more will pay for itself in parts and maintenance costs.

with all the regs your buying, at 25$ per stage plus parts...... yeah I'd be glad to service them too!!

Best of luck,

 

[IndigoBlue]

SterlingDiver once bubbled...
.....and let him know I was interested in the 380's not 190's. I let him know again that I was buying 4 sets by x-mas and another 3 in the next 6 months. I told him I was going to shop around including online and asked him to price out 4 regs, octos, 3 gauge consoles, reg. bags. He still came in more than 30% ($1200 difference) higher online.

I visited a second LDS that I haven't been to in about a year. Layed out the same scenerio about purchasing before x-mas and that I was looking for a relationship with a local shop. I told them I will be spending around $10,000 in the next 12 months and that I wasn't willing to pay retail. They carried several brands, which is new since my last trip. They still quoted me about 30-40% over LP. In frustration I nicely told them I would take my chances online. With that they replied their tech would be happy to service what ever I buy. (wow! that seems different, but realistic, though I can't imaginge them not being willing to sale that much equipment for a more reasonable price and make the profit there)

With that said, I am going to take my chances online and have the 2nd LDS service my gear.

I guess what is left of the "pseudo free market" dive industry will eventually work itself out. Unfortunatly I think it will be at the demise of the LDS.

Thanks for all your good advice.

SterlingDiver

The ScubaPro Mark 2 is their low end un-balanced reg. I use one on my pony bottle, on my shallow final deco stage, and on my drysuit argon bottle. I would not use this reg for all around diving.

If I was buying for a family of 7 and I was on a budget, I would not try to gear them all up in ScubaPro. ScubaPro is the Rolls Royce of regulators. For most people who own them, price is no issue at all. You should be able to get higher performance balanced regs for less money if you look at Mares, Zeagle, or Apex.

 

[Druid]

IndigoBlue once bubbled...


The ScubaPro Mark 2 is their low end un-balanced reg. I use one on my pony bottle, on my shallow final deco stage, and on my drysuit argon bottle. I would not use this reg for all around diving.

You should be able to get higher performance balanced regs for less money if you look at Mares, Zeagle, or Apex.

I'm always amazed that people will use "inferior" regs on their alternate air source. If I'm ever in a situation when I need my pony reg, it had better work. If my primary reg has failed, then I have little faith in an inferior alternate.

Agree with your comment about better performance for less money from other manufacturers. Apeks, Mares and Sherwood are good IME, no experience of Zeagle regs though.

 

[IndigoBlue]

Druid once bubbled...


I'm always amazed that people will use "inferior" regs on their alternate air source. If I'm ever in a situation when I need my pony reg, it had better work. If my primary reg has failed, then I have little faith in an inferior alternate.

Agree with your comment about better performance for less money from other manufacturers. Apeks, Mares and Sherwood are good IME, no experience of Zeagle regs though.

Since the ScubaPro Mark 2 is not balanced, it is simply not a high performance reg. This only means that as you breathe the tank down, you can tell by the breathing effort that it is getting low.

Most time spent on a pony bottle or on a shallow deco bottle (pure O2 etc) will be at 20 ft anyway. The Mark 2 is perfect for that.

When you switch to your air pony, sure you will be deep (max 130 ft presumably, or max 100 if your procedures have been ultra modernized), but you will be on your way up, and the pony will be full, and therefore an unbalanced reg is just as well.

And even though it is unbalanced, it is not cheap, because is has SCUBAPRO engraved on it, therefore it is not meant for a family of 7 on a budget either.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Scubapro only allows their dealers to offer a discount of 10% below MSRP on their regulators. LP buys them offshore and is not restricted to that arrangement, but at the cost of the regs not being eligible for the SP warranty. Most LDS's will work with you on a package deal to steeply discount the other stuff like wet suits, etc. as an indirect means to give you a better discount on the regulator. Some dealers will also use a trade allowance to get around the 10% disount limit. They can give you a whole lot more than your old reg is worth to indirectly allow you a steep discount on your new SP reg.

The SP warranty is actually quite good as it not only includes annual service parts but all parts including ones designed to improve performance or reliability. For example my Mk 15 was redesigned to allow reliable service up to 4350 psi. The upgrade requires several new parts bt they are provided free under warranty. Similarly, my Mk20 has went through 3 new piston designs all at not cost. And the Mk III I originally bought in 1985 is still fully supported and SP is one of a very few companies that demonstrate the committment to provide parts and service support for a regulator that was originally on the market in the early 70's.

The letter of the SP warranty requires annual service, but I have seldom seen this rigidly enforced and most shops will try to honor the warranty if at all possible if you bought the reg from.

The word I have heard recently is that Scubapro has just about sewn up the Leisure Pro problem and I do not expect SP regs to be available through LP for much longer. Not coincidentally I suspect, LP recently sent an E-mail to me offerring to buy used SP regs, so they appear to be looking for other sources. I am not sure what will happen if LP discontinues SP regs, but if they cannot get regs they will also not be likely to get parts and the LP warranty will not be worth diddly. In the long run you will save money buying from a US dealer and benefitting from the SP warranty. If you are going to keep the regs for several years, that would be the best way to go.

The MK 2 Plus is SP's low end first stage but it is more than adequate for recreational diving and I would not hesitate to use one to 130 ft. I have used my Mk III to those depths and it has less capacity than the MK 2 Plus. The Mk 2 Plus is very simple and extremely reliable even in cold water. It is a very low maintenence reg and is very cheap to service. The price is also quite good for a quality piece of life support equipment at around $210 for a MK 2 R-190 at the LDS.

SP also has a substantial dealer network and you should be able to get an SP reg serviced just about anywhere. With another brand you may have to mail away for service if there is no loca dealer and that means playing tech roulette as well as having to pay for shipping if the original work is not done quite right. It is very common for a reg to have to be readjusted after a few days once the seat in the second stage takes a set. This is not an option mail order, so most techs in that situation will detune the reg to ensure it will not freeflow when the customer gets it. That means you most likely won't benefit from the regs true performance potential

Internally the R-190 is no different from the R-380 and the poppet design is the same as the one originally used in SP's all metal High Performance second stage. They are all very nice breathing second stages if properly tuned. The performance standards are also very similar with an inhalation service specification of 1.2 to 1.8 inches of water for the R-380 and a narrower 1.4 to 1.6 inches of water for the R-190.

The mouthpiece is the same on both so the R-190 will not feel like a softball compared to the R-380. Personally I prefer the larger diaphragm of the R-190 to the smaller size of the R-380 and in my opinion you will not notice the larger size of the R-190 in the water anyway. So I suspect I may agree with the LDS owner you spoke with regarding his preference for the R-190.

I would also tend to ignore the Rodales reviews and I'd go a step further and not pay a lot of attention to cracking efforts as quoted by many sources. The lowest cracking effort does not always mean the best reg nor the most stable and natural air flow.

 

[SterlingDiver]

DA Aquamaster:

Thank you for some additional insights, I have nver heard of ScubaPro offering upgrades let alone at no cost. That is pretty amazing.

I wish one of the LDS would offer me some other incentive as you mentioned. It would make my purchasing decision alot easier.

Anyway, at this point I settle for another brand purchased online w/full factory warranty and hope for one of the local dive tech.'s to maintain it for me.

Thanks again,

SterlingDiver

 

[bigredbill]

since it seems that SP is not working out for you, what did you decide upon?