Yellow hoses and Yellow regulator Question

[Bob DBF]

Nobody cares about colours when using primary donate where you give the regulator to the diver without gas.

Agreed,

The reason for the yellow is for the "take it from me" alternate where you wait for the out of gas diver to find your regulator, untangle it and breathe (or drown trying).

BSAC is trained for alternate take, from my understanding, other rec agencies for alternate donate and take if necessary. I would prefer the BSAC method.

You will see an out of gas diver way before they come over and say "hello old chap, would you mind awfully if I could borrow some gas as I seem to have lost mine…". A drowning diver really won’t mind what colour the reg and hose is

Depends on the situation, I would agree, however I have had divers I did not know we're in the area come from behind.

Question for the panel: has ANYONE EVER had a diver unexpectedly TAKEN the reg from their mouth?

Twice, it was from behind while I was solo diving so it was a bit of a supprise. It was before the widespread use of SPGs and alternate seconds, so it was no shock they needed the reg in my mouth. It all worked out fine after the initial excitement.

I postulate this is an ultra-rare event

Any emergency air share is a rare event, I only have had one other and I saw them coming and had my alternate ready when the got to me. I do air shares for practice, and sometimes to even up the air supply with a buddy.

I have never gone OOA unintentionally since I bought my first SPG.

 

[David Novo]

Re read my earlier posts. This is where in my opinion normalized training needs to be taught. If a out of air diver is going for your in mouth primary which is probably black then why are the secondary hoses primarily yellow in color. I guarantee you it’s not for your convenience. Hence the reason I said there is either something missing in our training or people just don’t care or teach it anymore.

What are you going to do when you are wearing a full face mask? Rip it off and give it to your diver in distress? I think not.

I am not I repeat not being argumentative. What I’m trying to do is inform you guys who keep talking about a utopian dive incident where you provide your primary to a real panicked diver and the real situation is on a genuinely panicked diver is they are not playing the I’m out of air game. They want air and if they can’t get it they know where the air is and that is top side.

Don’t take my word for it. Go watch some panick diver videos and you’ll see exactly what I mean. A non panicked diver has time to show you the cut signal and has time to get either your primary or secondary.

Open your mind to there is additional training or a better way than what you were taught. The saying “we’ve always done it this way” can get you hurt or worse.

Glenn

How is taking a secondary regulator easier than taking the primary?
Which of these do you think a panicked diver associates with gas: 1) A yellow regulator; 2) bubbles leaving a regulator?

Regarding FFMs, are you going to use a long-hose secondary on a cave?

P.S.: I opened my mind and agreed that there is a better way that I was taught in OW: I was taught to dive secondary donate and now I dive primary donate.
P.S.2: If you believe color is that relevant, just use a yelllow primary regulator.

 

[NorCalDM]

Re read my earlier posts. This is where in my opinion normalized training needs to be taught. If a out of air diver is going for your in mouth primary which is probably black then why are the secondary hoses primarily yellow in color. I guarantee you it’s not for your convenience. Hence the reason I said there is either something missing in our training or people just don’t care or teach it anymore.

What are you going to do when you are wearing a full face mask? Rip it off and give it to your diver in distress? I think not.

I am not I repeat not being argumentative. What I’m trying to do is inform you guys who keep talking about a utopian dive incident where you provide your primary to a real panicked diver and the real situation is on a genuinely panicked diver is they are not playing the I’m out of air game. They want air and if they can’t get it they know where the air is and that is top side.

Don’t take my word for it. Go watch some panick diver videos and you’ll see exactly what I mean. A non panicked diver has time to show you the cut signal and has time to get either your primary or secondary.

Open your mind to there is additional training or a better way than what you were taught. The saying “we’ve always done it this way” can get you hurt or worse.

Glenn

We teach primary and secondary donate as there are multiple configurations out there. We happen to teach PADI and there is nothing about primary or secondary just alternate air source. One issue I see if you are only taught secondary donate which lots of rental gear is set up this way and then you go buy a nice new set up or rent one and it has an Air2 you are now primary donate and don't even realize it or don't know what to do with it. When I dive in a new group or new buddy I just look at what the set up is and I know what they are using to donate it doesn't matter to me and some of the vintage guys I have dove with are still set up to buddy breathe as they don't have a secondary regulator.

 

[Glenn Williams]

How is taking a secondary regulator easier than taking the primary?
Which of these do you think a panicked diver associates with gas: 1) A yellow regulator; 2) bubbles leaving a regulator?

Regarding FFMs, are you going to use a long-hose secondary on a cave?

P.S.: I opened my mind and agreed that there is a better way that I was taught in OW: I was taught to dive secondary donate and now I dive primary donate.
P.S.2: If you believe color is that relevant, just use a yelllow primary regulator.

Your not reading what I’m writing. What I’m discussing is open water, non tech, air or Nitrox only. Tech diving, cave diving and advanced diving usually means experienced divers who are less prone to panic and are seasoned enough to know what to do when they run out of air. Color of hoses etc don’t matter.

A recreational dive scenario is what I’m discussing. This is why I believe more standardized training needs to be taught. Sure giving your primary in a proactive situation will work. However my yellow secondary will work as well and since the hose is longer will work better. Now I can give it to the out of air diver or the diver can get it on their own.

Since I wear a full face mask they are not getting it, the only option is the secondary and again that would be in a non panicked situation.

Glenn

 

[David Novo]

Your not reading what I’m writing. What I’m discussing is open water, non tech, air or Nitrox only. Tech diving, cave diving and advanced diving usually means experienced divers who are less prone to panic and are seasoned enough to know what to do when they run out of air. Color of hoses etc don’t matter.

My point was exactly what you are now mentioning, you are considering tech diving as a niche but FFM as mainstream...

Sure giving your primary in a proactive situation will work. However my yellow secondary will work as well and since the hose is longer will work better.

It seems to me that you are not really familiar with primary donate configuration, if you say that an octopus usually has usually a longer hose.

Now I can give it to the out of air diver or the diver can get it on their own

This is also true for primary donate. Unlike in secondary donate, my backup is below my chin so it is easy to reach if a panicked diver grabs my primary.

 

[Invader]

Is it general practice to have the "donate" regulator that you would donate to your buddy in an out of air situation either be yellow or to have a yellow hose? If a person sees a yellow regulator, will they rightly assume that that's the one they're going to receive if they need to share air?

I've noticed that octos are generally yellow and often have a yellow hose.

I put the yellow insert into my Zenith long hose reg for this reason.

 

[Micheal]

I would suggest some people read about real OOA stories. Here are some top issues. I have experienced everyone of these during my recreational and professional scuba career. Dan use to post a list, items 1-3 always in the top 5.

1. OOA diver comes from Above
2. OOA diver is not your buddy
3. OOA diver Grabs first available regulator.
4. OOA Diver has less then 30 seconds.

Why 30 seconds? Well, most do not know they are out of air until they try to take the next breath. Then they realize, F*#*, I am out of air. Panic takes on, they have not breathed in several seconds and they go flying to the first diver they see.

I run this scenario our of water with my student. I have them exhale, and time how long they can hold thier breath after the exhale. Many people can barley last 10 seconds.

Oh, and often in a real OOA scenario, the donors mask gets knocked down, when the OOA diver barrels through grabbing for the regulator.

Long hose allows the donor to control the situation better then with a short hose. Harder for the OOA diver to bolt to the surface, as the donor can back away.

Many of the situations people described are Low on Air situations. These are Crap, I have 100psi, let me get help from my friend.

 

[Centrals]

You could never ever predict what would a OOA diver behave in such situation.

One question I kept asking myself especially having read so many OOA incidences! How difficult it is to check your own spg?

 

[Glenn Williams]

You could never ever predict what would a OOA diver behave in such situation.

One question I kept asking myself especially having read so many OOA incidences! How difficult it is to check your own spg?

I get it, I have dual redundancy and check my air pressure often. After seeing two different people run out of air personally I sincerely hope I never do.

Glenn

 

[Glenn Williams]

I would suggest some people read about real OOA stories. Here are some top issues. I have experienced everyone of these during my recreational and professional scuba career. Dan use to post a list, items 1-3 always in the top 5.

1. OOA diver comes from Above
2. OOA diver is not your buddy
3. OOA diver Grabs first available regulator.
4. OOA Diver has less then 30 seconds.

Why 30 seconds? Well, most do not know they are out of air until they try to take the next breath. Then they realize, F*#*, I am out of air. Panic takes on, they have not breathed in several seconds and they go flying to the first diver they see.

I run this scenario our of water with my student. I have them exhale, and time how long they can hold thier breath after the exhale. Many people can barley last 10 seconds.

Oh, and often in a real OOA scenario, the donors mask gets knocked down, when the OOA diver barrels through grabbing for the regulator.

Long hose allows the donor to control the situation better then with a short hose. Harder for the OOA diver to bolt to the surface, as the donor can back away.

Many of the situations people described are Low on Air situations. These are Crap, I have 100psi, let me get help from my friend.

Yes sir, this is what I was taught during stress and rescue. Long hose etc. Appreciate your response. I’m not the best at responding. You have hit the nail on the head.

Glenn