Tonka97's Five Scenarios for John Chatterton

[Wayward Son]

every word written by GG is unquestionably accepted as the utter, indisputed truth. Why is that?

 

[tridacna]

every word written by GG is unquestionably accepted as the utter, indisputed truth. Why is that?

Because Tonka says so. :10:

 

[Hockeynut]

OK, It's time for the real truth to come out.



I discovered the u-869 while on a secret mission for the 4th special forces ranger airborne unit battalion. I very quickly identified it and passed the information on to a homeless guy outside the secret base I was stationed at in Disneyland. (It's under that one castle thing) I told him to find someone worthy of discovering this u-boat and give him the information. I don't know if he gave it to Chatterton, Kohler, or Gentile. Or maybe even tonka? What I do know, is I found it and identified it. So everyone buy my new book when it comes out. It's going to be called"Shadow Hockey Diver"

 

[Hockeynut]

I hope Tonka doesn't write a book called, Shadow Hockey Diver Exposed.

 

[tonka97]

This is where it gets interesting...McKellar did not want to give Mr. Gentile the information because he (McKellar) evidently wanted to write about it and not let Mr. Gentile usurp his article fearing, because Mr. Gentile is an author and historian, he might do so. Mr. Gentile states he pleaded with Mckellar to divulge the info to John and Richie. Mr. Gentile said McKellar agreed. Now...Why on earth would McKellar give John and Richie information knowing the 2 were trying to find the ID of the U-Who bigtime...It would seem Mckellar would have been taking a much bigger chance divulging the information to John and RIchie than to Mr. Gentile. Hmmm...

Well finally there is a substantive post! Thank you!

John Chatterton and Richie Kohler were not authors. Gentile had written many books.

According to Gentile, Chatterton shopped for an author after the discovery.

 

[scubaaaronh]

First i would like to say welcome to the board John. I have read the book, watched deep sea detectives, and have the first two dive portal dvds. I have enjoyed them all. It is great to ba able to have the chance to ask a few questions and hope you (like others have said) can take some time out to answer some posts for us now and then. Your knowledge will be greatly appreciated. I hope one person will not chase you away.

I have also read the other book. Tonka you really need to get a life or a hobby. Get over it and on with your life.

 

[ReefHound]

From Gary Gentile's SDE

McKellar did not want his article pre-empted, so he kept the particulars to himself. He especially did not want me - an author and historian - to have access to his privileged information until after he published.

I pleaded with McKellar to share his information with Chatterton, Yurga, and Kohler (who were not writers and, therefore, were not competitors), even if he would not share it with me. For the cause of history, I was willing to step out of the picture. After some urging, McKellar did so. He also wrote to Robert Coppock and informed him of the Ultra decrypts. Once the Ultra secret was revealed to me, I obtained the same information that McKellar had found.

IMHO...It is unclear as to when McKellar came to give John and Richie this information. It seems as if he actually gave the info to Coppock???
One person Mr. Gentile charges that was also left out of the fray of contributors was Barb Lander which is a falsehood because she was mentioned several times in the book and was actually with John when he went to the archives to read the Ultra information.

In fact, Shadow Divers gives credit to Robert Coppock, who sent a letter to Chatterton with the tip that the U-869 was originally headed to the East Coast and likely never received her new orders to Gibraltar. But they had received hundreds of tips and had learned to follow up and verify firsthand so Chatterton went to DC to look at the decrypts himself.

Hey Tonka, if McKellar gave the info to Coppock and Coppock passed it along to Chatterton without giving credit to McKellar, that's not Chatterton's fault. Besides, I've not seen where McKellar has ever claimed credit personally.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

Well finally there is a substantive post!

According to Gentile, Chatterton shopped for an author after the discovery.

According to Kurson, he (Kurson) approached them.

Why is everything Gentile says gospel?

 

[rookers]

I discovered the u-869 while on a secret mission for the 4th special forces ranger airborne unit battalion. I very quickly identified it and passed the information on to a homeless guy outside the secret base I was stationed at in Disneyland. (It's under that one castle thing) I told him to find someone worthy of discovering this u-boat and give him the information. I don't know if he gave it to Chatterton, Kohler, or Gentile. Or maybe even tonka? What I do know, is I found it and identified it. So everyone buy my new book when it comes out. It's going to be called"Shadow Hockey Diver"

Nonsense. I conceived of the U869 while chillin' with the son of Bolingbroke on St. Ignacius's day, 1415. Let me tell you the Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports was more than thrilled when I described it to him. It will all be detailed in my upcoming book '100 Years of Fleas and Plague'.

 

[rawls]

John Chatterton and Richie Kohler were not authors. Gentile had written many books.

According to Gentile, Chatterton shopped for an author after the discovery.

Tonka...It is totally understandable that McKellar would not want Gary to get the info in fear of Gary usurping the information that he (McKellar) uncovered. I can buy that. But it also seems to convey the possibility that McKellar did not trust Gary with the information...I don't know, but for whatever reason, McKellar did not want to give the info to Gary...But he was ok with giving it to JC and RK???

You state it was because he was, as Gary states, an "author and historian" and that John and Richie were not. This is where you do not address my main point.

My question is if he didn't trust Gary with the information then why on earth would he trust John and Richie? He undoubtedly knew they were trying to determine the identity of the sub, so why would he want to give John and Richie access to this "priviledged information" until after he (McKellar} published it when he knew that John and Richie were the primary ones trying to ID the U-Who. John and Richie would have been more of a threat than Gary would have been. It just doesn't make sense.

According to Gentile, Chatterton shopped for an author after the discovery.

Ok...So with the above comment you half-heartedly address my point.
You seem to be making a point that since John didn't "shop" around (Did he ever shop around?) for an author until after the ID, Mckellar would have had the time to publish his findings before John "found" an author...and that's why he (McKellar) felt comfortable with giving John and Richie the info. To me, he (McKellar) most likely wouldn't have known whether John had a publisher, if he even had one in mind or not. In the very least McKellar would have been taking a big chance. So it still makes no sense, IMHO, that McKellar would divulge the info to 2 people who were trying their best to ID the U-Who.

I also pointed out that Mr. Gentile seems very vague as to McKellar supposedly giving the info directly to John and Richie....OR...Did he do it directly through Coppock?....Did he swear Coppcock to secrecy?

if McKellar gave the info to Coppock and Coppock passed it along to Chatterton without giving credit to McKellar, that's not Chatterton's fault.

Very good point and very true.

Finally...If McKellar did feel ok divulging the info to JC and RK because they didn't have a publisher/author, then why in the hell didn't he publish the information...He had the time. Why didn't he do it? And why has no one heard one thing from McKellar about all of this. Where was he quoted backing up Gary in SDE...NOWHERE....

I've not seen where McKellar has ever claimed credit personally.

Neither have I.....