Sea Shepherd condemned by International Whaling Commission.
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Who says so? LOL, you want a list of all the things that I think are wrong that go on all over the world anyway?
What is unfortunate is that there are people who condone the methods used by organizations like SS. All terrorists think their cause justifies their tactics.
None of this changes the fact that, according to the laws of almost every country in the world, assault, larsony, destruction of property and tresspass are all wrong.
Even if we consider whaling wrong, for the sake of argument, how do two wrongs make a right?
The only people saying that whaling is wrong are: marine biologists, marine ecologists, scientists for NOAA, scientists studying oceanic ecosystems from Great Britain, Germany, Canada, and Spain. Just about every conservation minded scientists and even media personalties like Jean Michel Cousteau and Philip Cousteau. Steve Irwin disagreed with whaling and Jane Goodall has taken a particularly deliberate stand against it.
Scientific papers on the harmful effects of whaling to the ecology of the ocean are published all over the internet, written by doctors from a variety of disciplines.
You know Geoff you can sit there and be a smart a-- and think you are hilarious and so smart and so much better informed then the rest of the world. You claim that you are against whaling. Instead of spending so much hot air blabbering on about how wrong SS is and condemning all of us that support the organization why don't you offer some suggestions into a peaceful alternative SS could take that might actually work.
BTW I have a very fashionable SS t-shirt. On the back it has a list of all of the ships that have been rammed or sunk by SS. Oddly enough the ships that have been rammed and a few that have been sunk have oddly Japanese sounding names - hmmmmm.... a point to ponder! At the bottom it says: To be continued....
Good work SS!!! Keep it up, should be tough to kill a whale when you ships resting at the bottom of the sea!!
Scientific papers on the harmful effects of whaling to the ecology of the ocean are published all over the internet, written by doctors from a variety of disciplines.
You know Geoff you can sit there and be a smart a-- and think you are hilarious and so smart and so much better informed then the rest of the world. You claim that you are against whaling. Instead of spending so much hot air blabbering on about how wrong SS is and condemning all of us that support the organization why don't you offer some suggestions into a peaceful alternative SS could take that might actually work.
BTW I have a very fashionable SS t-shirt. On the back it has a list of all of the ships that have been rammed or sunk by SS. Oddly enough the ships that have been rammed and a few that have been sunk have oddly Japanese sounding names - hmmmmm.... a point to ponder! At the bottom it says: To be continued....
Good work SS!!! Keep it up, should be tough to kill a whale when you ships resting at the bottom of the sea!!
"right and "wrong" are generally considered to be relative terms and value judgements. I think abortion is as "wrong" as wrong can get. What would you say if I put a ramming front end on my truck and went out and started ramming abortion clinics and the homes and autos of those who would have/perform abortions in the interest of saving the 800,000 or so human lives lost to abortion every year in this country?
LOL, and I'll bet we could find plenty of scientific papers detailing the harmful effects of assault, damage of private property and trespass too.
Legislators should certainly take such information into consideration. Law enforcement agencies should enforce the law. Private citizens who commit crimes, for whatever reason, should be held accountable for those crimes.
I'm no expert on the subject but it looks to me like whether or not whaling is legal is debatable. We all know that piracy, assault, damage of private property and trespass are crimes.
I sure wish I had a boat so I could take up whaling.
Mike,
The examples you give are in line but need some correction. Geoff has made some statements trying to make it appear as though whaling in protected whale sanctuaries is legal although it's not. I had a large post earlier in this thread detail a 1/2 dozen or more documents from a variety of sources speaking to the fact that the Japanese where breaking international conservation law with their whaling operations. People can deny this all they want but it's that very princaple that keeps people like Paul Watson from getting prosecuted.
That said let me revise your example:
Say tomorrow it is decided in the U.S. that abortion is federally legal but the states are able to decide independently as to whether they allow abortion state wide. The state of Maine decides that it is a 100% abortion free zone, a sanctuary that is pro-life life. Although doctors are setting up abortion clinics and giving perhaps 1500-5000 (based on the number of whales killed) abortions per year and making a profit from this. The catch to Maine's law is that abortion is legal as long as it's for scientific research.
The doctors (whose clinics are called RESEARCH) claim that the abortions they give are only for scientific research though in reality they are giving the abortions because some teenage girls got knocked up and don't want to deal with the baby. In addition to that abortions "illegal" status in the state makes it possible for the doctors to charge a premium price for their service.
The government of Maine has said that they either need to cease offering the abortions or at least lower the numbers of abortions each year and prove that they are doing research. The doctors do not comply and actually increase the numbers of abortions they are doing publishing fake scientific facts about how abortion is actually helping humanity and a totally valid practice.
Maine says, well abortion is totally illegal in our state but sadly we don't have the means to enforce these laws. The ring of doctors offices doing abortions has become so financially strong and created a World of Abortion union that the federal government won't do anything to stop them and is taking financial bribes from the doctors to ensure compliance.
So here comes along Johnny Watson who is totally 100% against abortion. He decides to start an organization called Abortion Shepard. Abortion Shepard has huge H1 Hummers equipped with enormous brush guards and rams into the abortion clinics destroying the buildings and equipment that can administer an abortion. They also destroy the "abortion mobiles" the doctors travel in to pick patients so that they can no longer get patients to the clinic to make more money.
The doctors are ticked so they want abortion shepard tried in a court of law. Although, Abortion Shepard is only acting on a written legal charter from the Federal Government saying that it is possible for private citizens to act on abortion law by personally enforcing it. (much like the U.N. world charter for nature that sea shepard acts under.) No doctor or patient has been hurt or killed though one of the doctors shot at a member of abortion shepard and hit him, luckily he was wearing a bullet proof vest.
The doctors decide not to prosecute Abortion Shepard since they were illegally supplying abortions and they would risk persecution themselves.
This is basically the way it plays out regarding Sea Shepard only the Federal Government would be the U.N. and the state of Maine would be a place like Australia where the Japanese have illegally whaled. Naturally the doctors supplying the abortions would be the Japanese, Norwegian or Icelandic whaling corporations that illegally whale in other countries whale sanctuaries.
The examples you give are in line but need some correction. Geoff has made some statements trying to make it appear as though whaling in protected whale sanctuaries is legal although it's not. I had a large post earlier in this thread detail a 1/2 dozen or more documents from a variety of sources speaking to the fact that the Japanese where breaking international conservation law with their whaling operations. People can deny this all they want but it's that very princaple that keeps people like Paul Watson from getting prosecuted.
That said let me revise your example:
Say tomorrow it is decided in the U.S. that abortion is federally legal but the states are able to decide independently as to whether they allow abortion state wide. The state of Maine decides that it is a 100% abortion free zone, a sanctuary that is pro-life life. Although doctors are setting up abortion clinics and giving perhaps 1500-5000 (based on the number of whales killed) abortions per year and making a profit from this. The catch to Maine's law is that abortion is legal as long as it's for scientific research.
The doctors (whose clinics are called RESEARCH) claim that the abortions they give are only for scientific research though in reality they are giving the abortions because some teenage girls got knocked up and don't want to deal with the baby. In addition to that abortions "illegal" status in the state makes it possible for the doctors to charge a premium price for their service.
The government of Maine has said that they either need to cease offering the abortions or at least lower the numbers of abortions each year and prove that they are doing research. The doctors do not comply and actually increase the numbers of abortions they are doing publishing fake scientific facts about how abortion is actually helping humanity and a totally valid practice.
Maine says, well abortion is totally illegal in our state but sadly we don't have the means to enforce these laws. The ring of doctors offices doing abortions has become so financially strong and created a World of Abortion union that the federal government won't do anything to stop them and is taking financial bribes from the doctors to ensure compliance.
So here comes along Johnny Watson who is totally 100% against abortion. He decides to start an organization called Abortion Shepard. Abortion Shepard has huge H1 Hummers equipped with enormous brush guards and rams into the abortion clinics destroying the buildings and equipment that can administer an abortion. They also destroy the "abortion mobiles" the doctors travel in to pick patients so that they can no longer get patients to the clinic to make more money.
The doctors are ticked so they want abortion shepard tried in a court of law. Although, Abortion Shepard is only acting on a written legal charter from the Federal Government saying that it is possible for private citizens to act on abortion law by personally enforcing it. (much like the U.N. world charter for nature that sea shepard acts under.) No doctor or patient has been hurt or killed though one of the doctors shot at a member of abortion shepard and hit him, luckily he was wearing a bullet proof vest.
The doctors decide not to prosecute Abortion Shepard since they were illegally supplying abortions and they would risk persecution themselves.
This is basically the way it plays out regarding Sea Shepard only the Federal Government would be the U.N. and the state of Maine would be a place like Australia where the Japanese have illegally whaled. Naturally the doctors supplying the abortions would be the Japanese, Norwegian or Icelandic whaling corporations that illegally whale in other countries whale sanctuaries.
I missed that, care to repost?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaman 06
You are literally making up reasons as to why international conservation law does not apply to Japan.
Your Reply Geoff - > No, you are making up international conversation laws. What laws are you talking about?
________________________________________________________________
I was citing the IWC's worldwide moratorium on whaling. The conservation laws of Australia that protected the waters in which the Japanese were whaling. Here were your comments regarding that whale sanctuary and those laws.
Those waters are not recognised as Australian by the majority of the planet. If I recall correctly, just four nations recognise Australia's claim and none of them are big. The United Nations are the ultimate artiber in these cases and they do not recognise Australia's case.
Case closed.
So judging from what you have said as long as I don't recognize a nations waters or laws then I don't have to abide by them. All I need to say is hey only a few nations recognize this as yours, heck none of them are big and I don't think the U.N. recognizes it either - I can do whatever I want here. Perhaps Paul Watson of SS didn't recognize those whaling ships as ships. Maybe he recognized them as giant robots like the transformers rising out of the deep. Perhaps even the Japanese didn't recognize Paul Watson's ship as a ship either when they shot at it. Maybe they thought it was - ahhhhhhhhhhh "GODZILLA!!" (lips not matching words)
Originally Posted by aquaman 06
You are literally making up reasons as to why international conservation law does not apply to Japan.
Your Reply Geoff - > No, you are making up international conversation laws. What laws are you talking about?
________________________________________________________________
I was citing the IWC's worldwide moratorium on whaling. The conservation laws of Australia that protected the waters in which the Japanese were whaling. Here were your comments regarding that whale sanctuary and those laws.
Those waters are not recognised as Australian by the majority of the planet. If I recall correctly, just four nations recognise Australia's claim and none of them are big. The United Nations are the ultimate artiber in these cases and they do not recognise Australia's case.
Case closed.
So judging from what you have said as long as I don't recognize a nations waters or laws then I don't have to abide by them. All I need to say is hey only a few nations recognize this as yours, heck none of them are big and I don't think the U.N. recognizes it either - I can do whatever I want here. Perhaps Paul Watson of SS didn't recognize those whaling ships as ships. Maybe he recognized them as giant robots like the transformers rising out of the deep. Perhaps even the Japanese didn't recognize Paul Watson's ship as a ship either when they shot at it. Maybe they thought it was - ahhhhhhhhhhh "GODZILLA!!" (lips not matching words)
It still sounds crazy to me. For the time being, I'm still pretty fit and not a bad fighter so letting the strong have their way might work ok for me but do we really want to go that way?
Either we want to solve these kinds of issues by due process and laws following some general guidelines of conduct or we just have a big free-for-all.
How does law enforcement generally work (at least around here)? When someone commits a conservation law violation they are ticketed or arrested. Later the case is decided in court. Usually we refrain from issueing punishment until there is a conviction. It's the whole due process thing.
Ever have a law enforcement officer just ram your car or throw rancid butter at you?...that's not what they usually do anyway. They flash their lights or show you a warrent, you yield, they write you a ticket or arrest you and then you get ygour day in court.
I don't think we should confuse what SS does with law enforcement.
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