SAC vs Surface RMV

[Scott L]

As a matter of fact, I've contacted them about purchasing the manual . . . :blinking:


I'm toying with the idea of doing a contrast analysis paper and submitting it to a dive magazine.

Much better than TDI's IMO...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob, your explanation above and on your site -- is that according to PADI, or is it your interpretation to make it more meaningful for students?

The latter, actually. It is an accumulation of knowledge that I gained over a period of years. Most of it came from mentors, rather than from classes ... Uncle Pug was very influential in my learning this stuff.

The original material was created in 2003/2004 as part of a DM project I was working on with another DM ... now UTD instructor ... Brian Weiderspan (BDub here on SB). In 2004 I decided to teach it as part of my NAUI Advanced Scuba Diver class. After about a year, I then decided to adapt it to a stand-alone Power Point presentation and offer it as a free seminar to local dive shops and dive clubs.

Back around 2005/2006 I promoted it here on ScubaBoard, but since I didn't have a website yet I made an offer to anyone who wanted to send me their e-mail address and I would send them a PDF of the material ... I got over 800 request through ScubaBoard in about a six-month period ... so apparently somebody out there wanted to learn about it.

In 2008 I finally got my own website, and the article posted there is basically what I am currently using in my AOW class.

Jax, to my knowledge, PADI doesn't teach anything like this at a recreational level. But since I'm neither a PADI instructor nor a PADI student, it may be somewhere I just haven't seen yet.

NAUI doesn't teach it at the recreational level either ... which is a gaping hole I figured I could do something about, since I am a NAUI instructor. As of today, at least a half-dozen NAUI instructors in my area are teaching gas management as part of their Advanced Scuba Diver class. I like to think I had some influence on that ...

As previously noted, the IANTD Tek Lite book uses a similar approach to mine ... I used that book for my Recreational Trimix class in November 2005, and it's a pretty good presentation. You will also find a pretty cogent explanation in IANTD's Deep Diver handbook by Gary Taylor, although it's presented almost as a math exercise.

TDI also uses a similar approach in their Advanced Nitrox manual, but they make no distinction in the terminology, defining SAC and RMV as just two terms for the same thing ... but they do show the conversion between psi/min and CF/min in the same way that I do.

I'm happy to see that SDI is addressing the subject ... they just might be the first major agency doing so at the recreational level (as an agency-wide topic).

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jax]

The latter, actually. It is an accumulation of knowledge that I gained over a period of years. Most of it came from mentors, rather than from classes ... Uncle Pug was very influential in my learning this stuff.

The original material was created in 2003/2004 as part of a DM project I was working on with another DM ... now UTD instructor ... Brian Weiderspan (BDub here on SB). In 2004 I decided to teach it as part of my NAUI Advanced Scuba Diver class. After about a year, I then decided to adapt it to a stand-alone Power Point presentation and offer it as a free seminar to local dive shops and dive clubs.

Back around 2005/2006 I promoted it here on ScubaBoard, but since I didn't have a website yet I made an offer to anyone who wanted to send me their e-mail address and I would send them a PDF of the material ... I got over 800 request through ScubaBoard in about a six-month period ... so apparently somebody out there wanted to learn about it.

In 2008 I finally got my own website, and the article posted there is basically what I am currently using in my AOW class.

Jax, to my knowledge, PADI doesn't teach anything like this at a recreational level. But since I'm neither a PADI instructor nor a PADI student, it may be somewhere I just haven't seen yet.

NAUI doesn't teach it at the recreational level either ... which is a gaping hole I figured I could do something about, since I am a NAUI instructor. As of today, at least a half-dozen NAUI instructors in my area are teaching gas management as part of their Advanced Scuba Diver class. I like to think I had some influence on that ...

As previously noted, the IANTD Tek Lite book uses a similar approach to mine ... I used that book for my Recreational Trimix class in November 2005, and it's a pretty good presentation. You will also find a pretty cogent explanation in IANTD's Deep Diver handbook by Gary Taylor, although it's presented almost as a math exercise.

TDI also uses a similar approach in their Advanced Nitrox manual, but they make no distinction in the terminology, defining SAC and RMV as just two terms for the same thing ... but they do show the conversion between psi/min and CF/min in the same way that I do.

I'm happy to see that SDI is addressing the subject ... they just might be the first major agency doing so at the recreational level (as an agency-wide topic).

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, thanks so much!!!! (and forgive me the agency ooooops . . . raying

That is a broader view than I've seen so far.

I think it is really sad the agencies cannot agree upon a solid baseline of such an important aspect of gas management / dive planning.

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

Steve Lewis has written, IMHO, the definitive guide on SAC - RMV for technical divers. It comes in two parts and is titled "Gas Planning 101". You can find it at Doppler's Tech Diving Blog

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Steve Lewis has written, IMHO, the definitive guide on SAC - RMV for technical divers. It comes in two parts and is titled "Gas Planning 101". You can find it at Doppler's Tech Diving Blog

Whoa ... nice blog ...

Bookmarked!

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

That is a very nice blog. It's a keeper. Thanks.

 

[TSandM]

Steve is a wise man, and writes well. He has some great posts in the TDS archives, too.

 

[muddiver]

Bob, your explanation above and on your site -- is that according to PADI, or is it your interpretation to make it more meaningful for students?

The PADI standards do not support the teaching of gas management at the Openwater Diver or Advanced Diver level.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The PADI standards do not support the teaching of gas management at the Openwater Diver or Advanced Diver level.

... I suppose they figure you don't really need to breathe until at least Rescue Diver ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jax]

Don't you guys hijack this thread into agency fussings!!!!! fftopic:

The PADI standards do not support the teaching of gas management at the Openwater Diver or Advanced Diver level.

... I suppose they figure you don't really need to breathe until at least Rescue Diver ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

:focus:

Does anyone know what the PADI definitions for SAC and RMV are, and how they calculate them?