Accident at Vortex Springs 8-20-10

[diverdoug1]

16 inches is not really a SM restriction. The stuff you are rrading about is half that size and smaller.

An 8" gap?? Man, that is TINY. I don't see how they even think he could have squeezed back there at all! Sure would be nice if this turned out to be some type of stunt.

 

[Jax]

We as a community of divers, instructors, site operators, fill operators, etc, NEED to have a way to recognize those who are consistently abusing our sport, and refuse to give these people the tools, means, and opportunity to put a black eye on the sport. I fear until that coordinated effort happens, we will continue to read about unfortunate accidents such as this. Yea, I know it's very "Big Brother", but if we don't handle the problem the REAL Big Brother will.

Perrone, thank you for your post. Unfortunately, I have to disagree with the above.

You cannot legistate, rule, or regulate out stupidity.​

I've spent my life in and around the military, and if there is one thing the military believes, it's training, training, training. They train, they analyze, they feed back, and train some more. If there is any agency that can force regulation and training down your throat, it is the military.

The one thing you learn as a leader in the military is that NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, SAY, OR REQUIRE, there will be someone that thinks they can get away with "it" anyway. That "it" may be trying drugs, driving under the influence, taking that curve just a little faster, jumping out of the plane with no training on that parachute, or taking express steps to gain access to restricted areas.

When something happens (accident, incident) in the military, they require what is called a "line of duty" investigation. Basically, was it an "oops" or did someone ignore what they were supposed to do? Overwhelmingly, the results are that people fail to do what they are supposed to do, and in doing so, do a wonderful number on rationalization.

It is horribly sad that the number one thought of commanders as they write letters to the parents of those that died, is "Why can't people just do what they are supposed to do?"

 

[Kicker1866]

8" is the width of a piece of paper?????

 

[Sicily957]

The search wasn't called off. A team just went down not too long ago.

 

[trfollis]

An 8" gap?? Man, that is TINY. I don't see how they even think he could have squeezed back there at all! Sure would be nice if this turned out to be some type of stunt.

Unfortunately from what i have read from the begining (being only an observer) im affraid that would be nearly impossible for the evidence presented.

 

[bigken462]

It's sad we have the technology to drill miles beneath the seafloor to hit something smaller in the width they are diving by just a few feet (in comparison) from the surface.

So here's a red neck idea. Fashion in some secure way a small underwater video camera to the end of a sturdy piece of schedule 40 PVC pipe. Prepare these in four to six feet joints and slowly introduce the camera into the space ahead. A safety string or something attached to the camera of course. But you get the gist. Could be later on replay that you only see murk and silt. Could be that you see a fin, or what we all hope is that the cave tapers out into the sand - seeing nothing. May take a few attempts, but its a option.

Just an idea.

Ken

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Unfortunately from what i have read from the begining (being only an observer) im affraid that would be nearly impossible for the evidence presented.

That's why its a no mount restriction. Molst of the explorers who were after the diver were some of the best there is at small stuff. When we say its sm only, that's what we mean.

 

[ucfdiver]

8" is the width of a piece of paper?????

Watch this video about 2:17 in. It will show you how tight you can get without removing tanks. These guys are removing tanks, so it's smaller than that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIlreHwSm1g

SM caves are absolutely no joke. It's why I hate the idea of OW SM courses, or transitioning divers to SM so early, it's super easy to get places you don't belong.

 

[netmage]

Geez James - that video made my a** pucker...

 

[Salient]

From what I was told, the manipulations were not likely evident to someone not looking for it. But that is not my story to tell. When those that have seen it first hand choose to respond, they can clarify this.

Some of us are a bit confused by the nearly non-stop barrage of the accusations that Ben tampered with the lock or gate; however there was at least one person on site when the accident scene started as evidenced by the very first posting on the other forum. The poster clearly states, without hesitation and as a first party witness, the following: "Just then the new owner operator lady started talking and she stated the key to the gate was checked out on Wednesday by a male and it was never returned" It is implied that she has made this statement to a deputy sheriff, if so it is now a matter of public record and I will be filing to have the report sent to me straight away.

This overlooked fact is important for surely it speaks to the character of the person. It is one thing to overestimate one’s ability, but it is another matter altogether to willfully break the gate and enter anyway. If Ben checked the key out then obviously his intent was to enter and enter in the proper procedural way, if he lacked proper experience to do so then he should not have been given the key. If he forced the lock, this accident is then and only then what most of you have stated.

Having now read all posts by the original witness/first poster, I do not believe he has a propensity to embellish nor willfully lie therefore I for one believe what he has said, further at the time of his posting he was first on scene before any facts were known therefore there would have been no need or thought to cover up the fact that Ben legitimately checked the key out. Fast forward to now and there certainly would be a reason to cover this up as a man with no proper certification should not have been allowed to do so and in doing so negligence by the owner of the spring has been established.

It further seems to me that the largest body of discussion on the topic of the gate is nothing more than the regurgitation of something someone else has stated previously, going all the way back to the news conference and statement by Mark wherein he publicly stated that the lock had been jimmied. The fact is the lock may have indeed been jimmied but it is also true that the owner stated that Ben checked the key out on Wednesday. The lock may have been tampered with prior to Ben's arrival at the gate. I have also read that it was the hinge that was tampered with, what I would like to know is does anyone have any direct firsthand knowledge of exactly what happened to the gate or lock? And by first hand I do not mean a phone call, text, email or any other acquisition of this knowledge by any means other than looking at it with your own eyes or touching it with your own hands?

The first and mostly like scenario is that the original poster is exactly correct when he states that the new owner told the sheriff that Ben checked the key out and further that the owner is now fully aware of the liability of this statement and is doing everything possible to retract it and miss direct.

It is also true that if Ben did not in fact "jimmy" the lock that he is not quite the reckless individual that he is being painted as. He has done a whole lot more for his fellow man than most of his detractors on this board and his mark on this world will not be left in the cold darkness of a lonely cave, it won’t be left by how well he has expressed his point on an obscure forum read by those who leave their marks on this world in a cold dark and lonely cave either, it will be left by those who know this man, and by those who love this man and by those who have life today through his foundation.

In closing I would simply like to say that for the next man who wishes to attack this man, whom you do not know, please first post the resume of your life and tell us all how it justifies you in casting the first stone because as far as I know there isn’t a man walking this earth that has the right to judge this man but most assuredly hasn’t the right to justify or comment based on hearsay evidence, i.e. the tampering of the gate. If you can’t or won’t post this resume then at the least post what good in this world you have done that justifies the wanton hubris you possess in saying such things as you have about Ben. At the very least if you wish to state your opinion then you should at least have the courage of your convictions and be able to state them outside of your peer group, in other words come to Ben’s memorial and state your opinion there as well as well as what give you the right to say it. Absent that, you should all leave your discussions to accident prevention measures for the future of your sport and leave the comments of who he is as a person to those who know something about the person.