Accident at Vortex Springs 8-20-10

[ucfdiver]

Mind if I borrow that for a sig line?

Feel free.

 

[sabbath999]

Originally Posted by ucfdiver
If you don't realize that 170ft deep on air through a no mount restriction with clay isn't smart, a course just can't help you.

Mind if I borrow that for a sig line?

I was thinking the same thing... great quote

 

[Rick Murchison]

... Unfortunately, you can only stress to them the dangers and make sure in the class the rules are followed. However, once they leave your side it is up to them...

I am a huge proponent of writing some things down. It isn't completely effective with everyone, but for most folks, if they write it down in their own hand, it has weight.
Therefore...
I have my open water students write, in their own hand, that they are to stay out of caves and other overhead environments. Most all tech instructors have students commit much of the dive plan to writing in some fashion, and I do too. And then I take it a bit further... for example, here's an excerpt from my Advanced Nitrox manual:

Using the Dive Planning Worksheet​

General Information


Team Members: Here we record basic information about our team members that may have some bearing on the dive plan. We commit information like certification level, diving experience, and currency to writing as an exercise in reinforcement of a mature planning process. This section is there to remind us to consider these factors in the basic mission parameters, and to ensure we aren’t planning a dive that is outside the safe limits or capabilities of any team member. By writing down our experience we help eliminate situations where overconfidence, a “macho” attitude or even embarrassment may prevent a team member from speaking up where a part of the plan exceeds sound judgment and safety based on a diver’s current capabilities...

I highly recommend this approach to any diver who'll listen
Rick

 

[Rick Murchison]

So..... has the body been found yet? Has the body been seen inside the cave out of reach of the rescuers? Or is there some other reason that they think they know where he is?

robin

No, no, yes.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Very sad for Ben's family and friends but completely understandable. I am glad that the lives of the rescue divers is being put first.

 

[TSandM]

Some time ago, someone (I think it may have been Cave Diver) started a thread about whether we actually ever learn anything from accident analyses nowadays. I think this is an excellent example of what the poster was talking about . . . I didn't learn anything from this accident, because I already know that, for example, I have no business in a cave like Vortex (and I have a Full Cave cert). Most accidents either remain unexplained (like the fellow who died on the Hill 400 line) or involve errors in judgment that 99% of folks simply wouldn't make.

If there is ANY lesson that might be useful from this case, it is that, when you decide that the rules don't apply to you because you are more skilled or smarter or different, you are probably wrong, and the results may be fatal.

 

[ucfdiver]

The search is off because the section he is in is too small and the clay in that area could cause silt out and/or collapse?

No mount restrictions provide no room to turn around. Backing out in zero viz catches your fins, harness, and everything else on rock, it's just not an ideal situation. Clay is the worst type of silt, it's extremely fine and isn't carried out of the water with the flow as easily as normal silt/sand. When you're dragging all that stuff, you keep stirring up more and more clay so that you never reach clear water, as you're creating the same problem you're trying to swim out of.

Carrying a body while pulling 2 tanks, following a line, backwards, all in zero viz at 170ft just isn't worth it...this is just a body, it's not a rescue. These guys who are trying are the best around, they've laid lines in the nastiest of FL caves, and even they're concluding it's unsafe. The fact that James Toland isn't getting there says a LOT.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I think the only reason they would go back now is for visual conformation that he is indeed there. Personally I hope they don't, IMO its too risky.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Another issue is the gas required to get back to that point. I looked at my last dive there and to get to 1500' back I used 55 cubes of an aluminum 80, under half the capacity of 2 hp100's and about 20 cubes of O2 for the entire 100 minute dive. A diver with only a deco bottle would need very large cylinders to make it back there with proper reserves.

Say like 2 deco bottles in OW, a stage in the cave, and SM'd HP130s?... and we have no idea if he adhered to any gas rule.

Was the key given to the diver without cert? Was the key giving to another diver and not turned in?

A key was not issued to the victim, he modified the gate with his own padlock to allow entrance.

Between the deep section and a high fissure crack there is a section about 250' long that is belly to back. There are also bends and such in the tunnel, not to mention the duck under immediately past the gate and grate.

You can swim all that, it gets much worse further out.

 

[Cave Diver]

Say like 2 deco bottles in OW, a stage in the cave, and SM'd HP130s?... and we have no idea if he adhered to any gas rule.

A key was not issued to the victim, he modified the gate with his own padlock to allow entrance.

You can swim all that, it gets much worse further out.

Mat, thanks for all the effort that you and others have put into this.