Do you dive with a snorkel!??

[windapp]

I do wish I could understand the divide here. Part of it is that the snorkel advocates have pushed snorkels as essential safety devices when they are not. If everyone said go dive with/or without a snorkel there would be no issue. But people on both sides say rather absurdly that you will present yourself to mortal peril if not moral iniquity if you do/do not wear a snorkel.

Personally I took the training were we instructed on freedivng and snorkeling and in the end I would rather swim, or dive, and just skip the snorkeling. That said if you want to suck air through a tube have at it. Just don’t ask me to join you, and if you insist that I am unsafe you may get a thumb right through your eye.

Those who don't give a rat's behind one way or another do not bother to post.

 

[Ghetto Diver]

 

[DaleC]

Again, I use "you, your, etc..." because I am addressing you in regards to your comments. That's not making it personal. But really, physician heal thyself. Look at your last few posts and see if you have done exactly that which you decry. Situational awareness...


I've grown weary of this as it really isn't that productive any more and I think all the points have been made. But, before I go I would like to address something brought up earlier by another poster. I won't elaborate further here because it really is off topic but if another thread should develop along those lines I will probably chip in :

This really should be in another thread but... You cannot learn any facts about decompression theory from the RDP. The tables are merely a set of precalculated square dive profiles, nothing more, nothing less. You actually learn more about decompression theory playing with simulation mode on your computer and watching as your remaining bottom time jumps when you switch from one tissue compartment to the next.

I was wrong about the RDP - it is a form of tables. I was thinking of that darn eRDP thingy. Here are some snapshots of the DCIEM manual which contains the DCIEM tables. Numeric form, tabular, sport diving tables, the history of how they were created and how they should be applied. The same info is available for the USN tables. As to PADI - why they would or would not supply the same sort of info is beyond my knowledge.

 

[BoltSnap]

I have always used a snorkel while scuba diving in my 35 years or so of diving. I used it without experiencing any of the above mentioned problems in all environments, wrecks, shore diving, boat diving, currents, low and high vis., warm/cold, long surface swims, etc. No issues from using snorkel that I can remember at all. I suppose no problems because I have learned how to use it properly and because of familiarity and practice. I use it whenever I am on the surface starting from the water entry up until the start of my descent U/W.

I teach snorkeling and skin diving as an essential part of my entry level scuba classes. In fact, almost half of the 16 - 20 hour confined water training is spent on skin diving and snorkeling skills. If a student can't tell the difference between a BC LP hose and their snorkel, they won't go on to open water training at all until they are proficient in their use and recognition of both. I believe that students should/must be very familiar with their equipment without making mistakes in their use or handling above or under water.

I can't see how they can teach all of this in the courses taught where I am now. The typical course here is about 2 - 3 hours in the pool and then on to OW (2 mornings) and then the student is certified!!!! In this scenario, the student will get confused with any piece of equipment including knowing how to put their wetsuit on let alone their snorkel or LP hose.

 

[bpotkin]

I like using my snorkel. It's a dry snorkel that works well. I like the idea of saving gas while swimming out to a drop zone or
swimming back to the boat. I have a back wing that pushes my face into the water and a snorkel comes in handy. With
that being said, at times I have forgotten my snorkel and had no problems or concerns without it.

 

[beanojones]

I can't see how they can teach all of this in the courses taught where I am now. The typical course here is about 2 - 3 hours in the pool and then on to OW (2 mornings) and then the student is certified!!!! In this scenario, the student will get confused with any piece of equipment including knowing how to put their wetsuit on let alone their snorkel or LP hose.

Well the fact is they can't.

Snorkels are not part of diving as far as the diving goes, so it's use is not practiced in the course of diving in the course, even if it is taught. Students can get very familiar with the operation of the gear because that's all they are doing in the two days. They can get familiar with how to put things on and together because those things make sense, and happen on the dry land. Snorkeling is just a checkbox, and a historical hangover, like swim tests and tables. It is not necessary for safety, and is counter-productive to safety in practice.

And that's precisely the point. Snorkeling is not part of diving, except in terms of tradition, or as an optional (but never necessary) part of a dive. There may be times when a snorkel is useful for diving, or fun to have for diving, but that's also true of scooters, and underwater tow sleds too. Those pieces require additional separate training, and so should snorkels.

Proper snorkel breathing is just not taught (nor does it need to be), because a snorkel is not a piece of safety equipment. It's an optional piece of kit. Getting snorkels off masks makes everyday tourist divers safer, because they keep the reg in, and don't choke.

People who free dive regularly have no problems with understanding how snorkel breathing works, and they might find a snorkel useful or fun. People who don't will suffer when they turn to something labeled a 'safety device', and instead get a mouthful of water when they are in need.

So the average OW diver should stay away from it as part of diving, because it never is necessary, and its often counter productive. Or because it is not even close to being taught in OW course, because instructors themselves suck at free-diving. Really the reason is immaterial. Divers, in general, don't know how to use snorkels properly, so they should not have them on their heads when they go diving. So we should just take the snorkel out of the diving course, and stop calling it safety equipment, because it is anything but safe in many cases.

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

I teach snorkeling and skin diving as an essential part of my entry level scuba classes.

Perhaps you can define essential a bit better. There are a lot of people and dives where it has proven to be less than essential.

 

[agilis]

There's way too much training and not enough learning going on. In any case, only a mentally ill megalomaniacal instructor would conclude that they are the primary source of accurate information upon which new divers rely. I expect (and hope) that students understand that the primary utility of most scuba instructors is to issue a C card so some actual experiential learning can take place.

If a student chooses to have a snorkel or declines one, it's their business. The instructor is not a high priest, students are not acolytes, and no certifying agency has any monopoly on the truth. All of them have taken idiotic positions over the years. They represent the flawed collective vision of a few people.who themselves are uncertified as establishers of standards.

Students should consider what they are told and what they read, follow basic requirements, demonstrate appropriate skills, and use their brain to either incorporate the things they were taught during training into their own personal style, or reject them as the stupid conceits and ignorant opinions of the C card issuer, who typically (and evidently) may be filled with harebrained notions.

I've read here repeatedly about sucking a mouthful of water through a snorkel because of waves, etc. Any competent snorkeler knows instantaneously if a snorkel has water in it. I've been a snorkeler for over 60 years, and have never sucked water into my mouth despite snorkeling in choppy seas. You can feel the condition of the snorkel from experience. The outer bore of the tube become like a second mouth, and any good snorkler knows what I mean. I know most people in dive classses are not good snorklers. But then, most certified divers are only marginally competent with scuba. Thats the nature of any mass activity where money is involved. This horse has been beaten to death.

 

[DaleC]

And it actually is beginning to make sense to me now. One of us is basing his definition of "diving" by what poorly trained vacation divers do.

 

[beanojones]

Any competent snorkeler knows instantaneously if a snorkel has water in it.h.

First, this is missing the point. It is not when there is water in the snorkel, it is when water suddenly enters the snorkel. What is someone supposed to do with empty lungs and a snorkel full of water? Being experienced in pools and quarries simply does not prepare one for that, because it does not happen there, and most instructor teach snorkel use like it is a magic breathing tube; as basically scuba without a tank.

Second, what does an (actually) competent snorkeler have to do with anything being discussed? It is not people who think they are impervious to waves and the ocean that are the matter for concern in this thread, or in this forum. It is people who don't know that they are not in fact safe, because when they practiced and were taught their snorkeling skills it was in pools and quarries. SO they expect the snorkel to work one way, and they just get a mouthful of water.

People who wonder about their training, and whether they should wear a snorkel. Anyone who asks that question most definitely should not be using a snorkel when diving, because they are by definition not a competent snorkeler. And that's fine, since diving has nothing to do with it.

I go further and say snorkeling mixed in with diving is a relic of the past of diving, and for safety's sake on the divers side, and for education's sake on the free-diving side, the snorkel should be out of Open Water Dive training. First, we will get safer divers, and second we will get better free-divers, because the people teaching free-diving will be teaching free-diving, not tossing in two exercises about putting the mouth on a snorkel in the midst of dive training.