Any benefit to Master Scuba Diver certification?

[FinnMom]

Then go dive more and with a whole lot of different people so that you can get some real life experience. Then take a GUE Fundamentals class or UDT/TDI's equivalence. After that, start taking the tech diving courses. Don't waste your time with silly ass specialty dives like boat dives, night dives, PADI wreck dive (what a joke), etc.

I agree! I understand that AOW is worthwhile for many relative beginners that wish to learn more and get more time with an instructor. I'm not sure that such relative beginners should all be given a cert to 100 ft, but I've never seen warm water or vis over 15m so maybe I overestimate the challenge of what 100 ft will be to most divers. Rescue also seems to a course most find extremely worthwhile.

BUT AFTER THESE I have never understood why so many people who really want to improve their diving skills don't invest in something like TDI's "Intro to Tech". Just because it's a whole new kind of course it's bound to offer you incredibly much more. Fundies was a good suggestion too, but from what I've read it sounds like a lot of Fundies students start with a pretty impressive skill set. It might not be the right place for a relatively green "advanced diver". I say relatively green because most of the new master divers I see featured in PADI's magazine (UK version) have less than 200 lifetime dives. At 200 dives I might think I was ready to begin a Fundies class, not be a gradute of one.

Slightly off-topic - Magazine feature backfires
PADIs featuring these new master divers in their magazine has been a big turnoff on the whole "Master Diver" title for me. I've seen several that weren't even 17, many with less than 100 lifetime dives, many that had only been diving 1-3 yrs. Probably a few to whom all 3 of these "points of concern" apply! So these are "master divers"? I liked the title a whole lot more before the magazine showcased for me how many had spent such minimal time achieving it and were so close to the minimum required experience.

I would buy my kid/recommend to a friend a beginning tech class. It's a whole new ballgame, a whole new level of play & very worthwhile.

 

[rhwestfall]

I had an acquaintance (insta-buddy - though a very good diver whom I would buddy with again) actually earn his PADI MD card by my signing his log book after a deep/wreck dive with him. WTF is that about????? So, I qualify (at the time AOW and Rescue certified) to certify him? Wow?.....

 

[EastCoastWreckDiver]

I think doing the master scuba diver challenege is great for any diver, if you just want an extra c-card or want to increase your expierence, taking the specialty courses for the MSD will increase your knowledge and help you in the future if you ever want to become a dive professional!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

As long as those courses actually make one a better diver. Since even distinctive specialties count what the heck is Manatee Diver going to do to improve one's skills? Along with Fish ID, Altitude, or Hydro Optics Mask user. The last of which teaches how to use contacts to mess up your vision so you can use the mask.

 

[drdaddy]

As long as those courses actually make one a better diver. Since even distinctive specialties count what the heck is Manatee Diver going to do to improve one's skills? Along with Fish ID, Altitude, or Hydro Optics Mask user. The last of which teaches how to use contacts to mess up your vision so you can use the mask.

I generally agree with you about PADI offering all kinds of silly plastic card classes as a way of generating money and making divers "feel" more competent by showing off all their "flower club awards" (referring to the old days when each week flower clubs would give out "awards" to its members). The Master Scuba Diver "so called cert" actually made me mad and disgusted. Rather than actually becoming a MSD, divers were simply paying money to get the title. Obviously they would have been much better off putting the time and effort into hiring a "Real Master Scuba Diver Instructor" who could have mentored and taught them to be better divers.

However, I must say that the "PADI Altitude Diver Course" as taught by Eugene Skin Divers Supply was an excellent course. It was a very appreciated course for those of us who live close to mountains and their beautiful clear high altitude lakes. We worked with our nitrogen tables, discussed nitrox, and our classroom time with our very competent Instructors used this time to improve our knowledge about diving. Then we went to Clear Lake. Again, our Instructors were not there to simply "sign off on a card" but to really make us better divers as they worked and went diving with us. This has been years ago, but I can still remember (and laugh about) some of the critiquing they did. While I am critical of the MSD cert, I do not want to confuse some of the bogus classes with worthwhile instruction.
Thank you ESDS for your excellent instruction and Dive Instructors.

 

[TMHeimer]

As long as those courses actually make one a better diver. Since even distinctive specialties count what the heck is Manatee Diver going to do to improve one's skills? Along with Fish ID, Altitude, or Hydro Optics Mask user. The last of which teaches how to use contacts to mess up your vision so you can use the mask.

Of course, this has been my only complaint about MSD. I learned quite a lot with the "core" specialties I took with the exception of Equipment Specialist. Well, I did learn some stuff there, but nothing really that would improve my diving or help me with servicing/repairing my own stuff. These "other" courses, like Underwater Naturalist, etc. being counted toward MSD only cheapens the cert. in the eyes of others and leads to these discussions.

 

[dmoore19]

The one thing about a discussion like this is usually that it can discourage people from taking a class that might in some way improve their skills as a diver. It is just like the threads the knock the AOW. Yes I am aware that the skills taught in AOW used to be part of a OW certification. Yes I know that some of what is taught in Rescue Diver used to be taught in OW. Yes some think Nitrox should be part of the OW certification. The problem is that these things are not part of it. So the question should be how do these divers learn the skills if they are not taught them in the OW class? As for the classes such as Manatee diver and others, if it increases their enjoyment of the sport, it might spur a desire to progress with skills too.

With all that being said, the absolute worst diver I have ever been around was a certified Master Diver from an agency other than PADI. Maybe a Master Diver card means nothing but a desire to learn shouldn't be quashed by the very people who do the teaching.



The way I see it is that OW divers should be encouraged to add to their skill set by encouraging them to take the classes that give them the skills needed. Belittling someone for wanting to take some of the classes does nothing to promote learning. The world has changed, adapting to those changes and encouraging a OW certified diver to learn the skills you think are needed is a way to do that. Regardless of the agency chosen, it is possible for a person wanting to learn those skills to acquire them.

 

[Thalassamania]

The difficulty is that the certification is without clear meaning. It maybe a course designed with interlocking specialties that results in a spectacularly skilled diver. I'm sure that with knowledge of the desired product and experience producing it combined with a single distinctive specialty course, some care and attention to detail concerning the selection and delivery of the other specialties and a "bend it, don't break it" attitude toward PADI standards, a program could be designed to come close to a 100 hr. Scripps model course. On the other hand, as Jim points out, a random collection of underwater basket-weaving classes will result in the same diploma. Now, I do not see how this discussion would, "discourage people from taking a class that might in some way improve their skills as a diver," since we are not talking about a "course," just a recognition program that, in actuality, recognizes nothing except a willingness to pay for another card.

 

[-hh]

Personally, I think the MSD rating is a joke. I've been diving for 50 years now and I hardly consider myself a "master" as I flail away looking for critters to film!

On the contrary: if you got the shot while (a) not harming the critter, (b) not harming the reef/environment, (c) not endangering yourself, (d) not endangering your buddy/other divers .. that's what matters. A Master knows that such dive priorities rank higher than his personal ego.

The one thing about a discussion like this is usually that it can discourage people from taking a class that might in some way improve their skills as a diver. It is just like the threads the knock the AOW. Yes I am aware that the skills taught in AOW used to be part of a OW certification. Yes I know that some of what is taught in Rescue Diver used to be taught in OW. Yes some think Nitrox should be part of the OW certification. The problem is that these things are not part of it. So the question should be how do these divers learn the skills if they are not taught them in the OW class? ...

That's one take. Another take is that these sorts of discussions serve to educate consumers into expecting/demanding better quality product and better value for their money, and it also helps provide feedback to the providers to confront them with where they're selling dog food.

As for the classes such as Manatee diver and others, if it increases their enjoyment of the sport, it might spur a desire to progress with skills too.

With all that being said, the absolute worst diver I have ever been around was a certified Master Diver from an agency other than PADI. Maybe a Master Diver card means nothing but a desire to learn shouldn't be quashed by the very people who do the teaching.

Unfortunately, these two things tend IMO to go together: the badge-collector type will seek out the "Easy A" Speciality Classes as the path-of-least-resistance to 'Master'.

The way I see it is that OW divers should be encouraged to add to their skill set by encouraging them to take the classes that give them the skills needed...

YMMV. In the old days, there was a far stronger emphasis on Mentoring, a role that was often well served with local clubs.

The difficulty is that the certification is without clear meaning. It maybe a course designed with interlocking specialties that results in a spectacularly skilled diver. I'm sure that with knowledge of the desired product and experience producing it combined with a single distinctive specialty course, some care and attention to detail concerning the selection and delivery of the other specialties and a "bend it, don't break it" attitude toward PADI standards, a program could be designed to come close to a 100 hr. Scripps model course. On the other hand, as Jim points out, a random collection of underwater basket-weaving classes will result in the same diploma.

Well said and this is really where the 'lattitude' of Standards works against the Master Diver: there's too much variability between a "minimally compliant" candidate and someone who has taken the hard path. Sure, there's AOW & Rescue in common, but even these have a lot of variabilty between minimal compliance and full mastery.


FWIW, my definition of a 'Master' Diver is one who is willing to disagree, in person, with an Instructor on a diveboat when the latter spews incorrect information and other dive myths...


-hh

 

[OldNSalty]

FWIW, my definition of a 'Master' Diver is one who is willing to disagree, in person, with an Instructor on a diveboat when the latter spews incorrect information and other dive myths...
-hh

I bet there are a lot of people on here willing to disagree with an instructor (me included). It does not make them a MD or right-might just make them a "pain in the ass"