Deep Stops Increases DCS

[Jax]

negative.

None of the models (Vpm, rgbm, buhlmann) tell you the risk (probability of dcs) for the outputted ascent profile.

I do not see any of the algorithms giving me a probably of risk of DCI, but they give me enough information that - If I am not lying to myself about my own health - I would make an "informed decision" (also known as a SWAG) about the risk of DCS. That is all we should ever take away from a computer or planning software.

 

[PfcAJ]

I do not see any of the algorithms giving me a probably of risk of DCI, but they give me enough information that - If I am not lying to myself about my own health - I would make an "informed decision" (also known as a SWAG) about the risk of DCS. That is all we should ever take away from a computer or planning software.

Sigh.

 

[StefinSB]

I do not see any of the algorithms giving me a probably of risk of DCI, but they give me enough information that - If I am not lying to myself about my own health - I would make an "informed decision" (also known as a SWAG) about the risk of DCS. That is all we should ever take away from a computer or planning software.

Well, you answered you own statement about current models outputting a risk factor with no.

No we should not. What models should provide is a risk associated with a chosen profile; currently that is not happening but that doesn't mean that we should be happy about it .....

 

[rjack321]

I do not see any of the algorithms giving me a probably of risk of DCI, but they give me enough information that - If I am not lying to myself about my own health - I would make an "informed decision" (also known as a SWAG) about the risk of DCS. That is all we should ever take away from a computer or planning software.

So does your SWAG say you need 30mins more O2 time or not?

 

[Jax]

So does your SWAG say you need 30mins more O2 time or not?

:lolabove:
C'mon - there are so many factors that go into all that! Would YOU make that decisions based on some numbers in a dive planner?

What are the diving conditions? Warm, icy, dark, current, stressful, wreck, working? So many factors beyond just the condition.

 

[Jax]

I do not see any of the algorithms giving me a probably of risk of DCI, but they give me enough information that - If I am not lying to myself about my own health - I would make an "informed decision" (also known as a SWAG) about the risk of DCS. That is all we should ever take away from a computer or planning software.

Sigh.

I see an issue in the production of "numbers" from a computer program. Let me try a simpler analogy:

The temperature is forecast to go from 95 to 100 over a two hour period. What is the probability of a heat injury, and how severe?

You simply cannot take that at face value, because there are so many more factors.

Conditions - glaring sun, or in shade, windy, breezy, still, dry heat, moist heat?

Person - skinny, fat, hydrated, not hydrated, fit, not fit, young, middle-aged, older, wearing a hat, not wearing a hat, clothing?

Activity - digging a ditch, lifting weight, lying down, barbecue, running, walking?

Health - organs, pulmonary, heart, etc.


Therefore, my statement that a SWAG based on input is what deco is. No computer, no planner *gives* safety - just some numbers that are sometimes based on empirical data that someone else manipulated into a model . . . but the model is "good" over a given range.

 

[Jax]

negative.

None of the models (Vpm, rgbm, buhlmann) tell you the risk (probability of dcs) for the outputted ascent profile.

AJ, does your emphasis on probabilistic analysis make you a fan of the US Navy Medical Research Institute's (NMRI's) Maximum Likelihood Statistical Method model, then? The NMRI's tables were considerably more conservative than the Navy tables that existed at the time, had a 2.3% incidence of DCI, and were met by considerable resistance by the Navy divers. [Deco for Divers, 2nd Ed]

 

[kensuf]

You know AJ hangs out with a guy who studies decompression for the US Navy, right?

 

[Jax]

You know AJ hangs out with a guy who studies decompression for the US Navy, right?

Which is why I am asking the questions.

 

[LiteHedded]

You know AJ hangs out with a guy who studies decompression for the US Navy, right?

NO BIG DEAL