Cave and Wreck diving

[Johanan]

Paradise Springs can be done with just an open water certification...

The video: I don't want to sound didactic or reiterate the basics, and it was difficult to judge how deep exactly divers moved into the cave, but it looked quite imprudent - with a single cylinder, with no reel and no backup lights into a cave, passing the grim reaper sign, octopus dangling over rocks and cracks. If this is done with an OWD cert, it's neither wise nor advisable at all.

 

[DMDavid]

The video: I don't want to sound didactic or reiterate the basics, and it was difficult to judge how deep exactly divers moved into the cave, but it looked quite imprudent - with a single cylinder, with no reel and no backup lights into a cave, passing the grim reaper sign, octopus dangling over rocks and cracks. If this is done with an OWD cert, it's neither wise nor advisable at all.

Let me start by saying the video is not mine, it's just a video I got from YouTube to show Paradise Springs.
The second thing is that Paradise Springs is an Open Water dive as long as you don't go past the Grim Reaper.
What other divers do is beyond my control and I'd hope that the smart divers will see the many mistakes made by these divers and not follow their lead.
That said I hope you enjoyed learning about a dive location that can be done with just an open water cert.

As a pilot and Army veteran I too find it hard to watch movies or videos about flying or the military without critiquing the multitude of mistakes made, but I try to enjoy it as much as possible and remember that if I want it done right I should do it myself.

 

[diver42]

I am pretty interested in wreck diving in the future, the idea of going through sunken history is totally awesome to me! However I was thinking about cave diving and it really doesn't interest me, maybe I am just ignorant to what it has to offer. Are there cooler things in caves over wrecks? Why are some divers drawn to caves and don't do wrecks (or even vice versa)?

There are a lot of reasons to take cave training. You don't need it for wreck diving, but it'll help. It'll actually help all of your diving. But you may want to think about whether the increased risk is worth it. A lot of people say they want to go "wreck diving," and they just mean they want to see the outside of the wreck and maybe peer in. Or maybe just do some easy "swim throughs" of wrecks with big holes. There's nothing wrong with that. There's a lot to see.

I never thought I'd find anything interesting in a cave, until I started looking into it—figuratively and literally. Check out some videos and see if you like what you see. Then maybe do a cavern tour. Looking at pictures doesn't quite convey the "holy sh!t" moment when you're actually inside the cave and going farther.

Both caves and wrecks have their pluses and minuses. Among them, wrecks may be more accessible to your home, in warmer water, have beautiful marine life, and generally don't have "flow" (other than the ocean currents). There's also history to see and learn about. On the other hand, they may be unstable, have jagged edges, and dangerous marine life, and they're subject to changes in the weather. Caves may be more or less accessible to you. Most have little in the way of marine life. But weather typically isn't an issue (other than flow and viz). They can also be quite big or quite small. And the formations can be out of this world. Some people find cave deco boring. Some, relaxing.

For me, exploring a cave is like visiting another planet. And that's just not something most people get to do. Because you're shielded from weather, and you can find some shallow caves, you can do really long dives. Most of my dives are three to four hours long. That may be good or bad, depending on your point of view.

Here's a short clip that will give you an idea about it: And here's a longer clip of a completely different cave:

 

[chrisch]

That's a great picture!!! Where is it?.

Rocamadour. Dordogne travel guide, France

There are quite a few nice caves in the nearby area, the best know being the Ressel. It gets very busy in summer and parking there is a problem. However there are lots of other venues and several suitable for new cave divers. We generally drive down and take our own equipment in the car, but there are plenty of places to rent equipment. You do need a vehicle once you are in the area so it makes sense for us to drive from the UK. There are lots of divers come from all over Europe but not very often that we get people from North America. We would like to see more of you please!

Classic composite photo of the Ressel:

 

[Johanan]

One of the best videos on the beauty of cave diving:

 

[beester]

I need to be in/on wrecks and I need to be in caves. My wreck buddies complain I always talk about caves and my cave buddies that I always talk about wrecks. Just do both and both styles will benefit from eachother

 

[Rhone Man]

Toughest course I ever took was the TDI Advanced Wreck Diver.

On day 1 the instructor told us not to bother reading the standard materials and gave us a copy of a cave diving manual.

 

[Caveeagle]

The video: I don't want to sound didactic or reiterate the basics, and it was difficult to judge how deep exactly divers moved into the cave, but it looked quite imprudent - with a single cylinder, with no reel and no backup lights into a cave, passing the grim reaper sign, octopus dangling over rocks and cracks. If this is done with an OWD cert, it's neither wise nor advisable at all.

I felt the same way. Even if this diver did not pass the warning sign, ..this was an accident waiting to happen.

...The second thing is that Paradise Springs is an Open Water dive as long as you don't go past the Grim Reaper.

Um... No it's not an "open water dive". The property owners do allow open water divers dive here and It seems inconsistent as to if/when they allow divers to carry lights. For example: My AOW divers dove there back in Feb'16 and were told not to use lights. I dove there with a small group and (including OW divers) and no mention of a light restriction was mentioned.

More to the point: This in NOT an open water dive, unless you stay within about 10" radial feet of the deck/ladder. It IS a very nice "Cavern" dive, where much of the area can be explored within sight of the surface. I think this is where people get mixed up. Under most agencies I am familiar with; your primary light source in a "Cavern" dive should be the Sun/Surface light. If you are unable to see well enough to exit without a dive light, you are really past the "Cavern" zone and into the "Cave" zone.
At the Warning sign in Paradise Springs; you are at ~95' in depth and over 75' away from the surface at roughly a 45* angle. Yes, you can see surface light from there. Depending on water viz, it might look about the size of a small orange. It would not take much for another diver so silt out the cavern and really shut off that light source.

I personally would not dive that cave with less than 3 reliable lights. I chose not to dive past the sign with the group I was with. Its small and doesn't even go that far anyway. Plus there is plenty to see in the larger cavern area.

My last dive here was in a single tank configuration, rigged to cavern/cave trim. It is my opinion that even if you don't pass the "sign" it's a Cavern+ dive. I will dive this again, but will be in full cave trim with fully redundant regulators and powerful primary light. ..Probably double tanks too. Some might think this is overkill, but with depths in the 100' range and plenty to explore, why not get the most for your $30 entry fee, plus gain some experience in a longer dive profile.


What other divers do is beyond my control and I'd hope that the smart divers will see the many mistakes made by these divers and not follow their lead.
That said I hope you enjoyed learning about a dive location that can be done with just an open water cert.

As a pilot and Army veteran I too find it hard to watch movies or videos about flying or the military without critiquing the multitude of mistakes made, but I try to enjoy it as much as possible and remember that if I want it done right I should do it myself.[/QUOTE]

 

[boulderjohn]

If you wonder if you will like either serious cave diving or wreck diving, you can take a cavern diving course or a recreational wreck diving course. Both are really introductory courses, don't take long, and don't cost a lot of money. You will learn something in each, and you will get enough of a taste to tell you if it is worth pursuing.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think Andy said it best ... which you find preferable is often going to depend on what's most available to you. I took wreck diving classes before I took cave diving classes, because we have wrecks to dive where I live, but cave diving for me involves air travel and vacation time. Therefore I'm going to do more of the former than the latter.

My wreck training was pretty good ... and the skills translated reasonably well for my later cave training. Things like managing a reel and doing tie-offs are similar, although finding places to tie off can be considerably different, and there are some slight technique differences to accommodate those differences. But the mindset of keeping a line between you and open water are the same. The blind drills you have to do for lost line or silt-out are similar ... making use of a safety reel is pretty much the same, although there are hazards inside a silted out wreck that you won't have to worry about in a cave (and vice-versa). And the mindset of planning your dive and managing your risks is similar enough between the two to make the transition relatively easy. I find that generally the wreck divers I know out here on the west coast usually end up learning cave diving, and find it an attractive alternative when they can schedule a trip to Florida, Mexico, or elsewhere there are caves to be dived.

As for the comment that cave training's the hardest training in the world ... that's debatable. I've been witness to some real train wreck classes, particularly by one or two well-known Florida cave instructors, that made me just shake my head and be glad I didn't choose that particular instructor. Like most classes, a great deal of the quality of the training's going to depend on who you choose to train you ... and that's true in both wreck and cave training.

The concepts of overhead diving are similar enough, and generally transferrable between the two. The skills involved in risk mitigation can be quite different ... entanglements are much more of a concern inside of a ship than they are in a cave, while navigational decision-making can be much more complex in a cave than inside a wreck. The mental approach ... which begins with acknowledging that either of these two environments can be very unforgiving and that a small mistake can easily kill you ... is similar enough to be transferrable from one to the other, if not in detail then certainly in the bigger picture of how to manage risks. The equipment's similar (generally ... east coast wreck divers tend to use things like hammers and pry bars that you won't find on either a cave diver or a west coast wreck diver).

As for why do it? Well, the answer's as varied as it would be with open water diving. There's unique excitement in both. Wreck divers often revel in the history of the wreck ... doing research on the vessel, how and why it went down, even at times spending hours researching the history of the people involved in the wreck. Cave divers get excitement out of the exploration aspects, the navigational challenges, or the significant beauty of otherworldly formations ... whether those formed by the running water, as in Florida or the magnificent formations of a cave that was created dry and subsequently flooded, as in Mexico.

As for me, I really enjoyed them both. My cave diving days are likely over ... it's been over two years since I was last in a cave, and if you can't go more often than that, you probably don't belong in caves since it really does require you to keep your skills current. I still do enjoy wreck diving, and am looking forward to some more of it in August, when I travel again to the Red Sea (those folks over there have been sinking each other's ships for millennia).

Overhead training, both for wrecks and caves, is a good investment. The skills I've learned ... both physical and mental ... serve me well even for local open water diving, particularly when I choose to do so without a dive buddy. I'd highly recommend either for the diver who wants to push their profiles beyond recreational limits, open up opportunities for new experiences, or "see what's in there" ... whether "there" is an open cargo hold or a hole in the rocks. I certainly would not recommend going in "there" without it, however harmless it may seem ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)