Yes, exactly. 5 knots is about 2.6 m/s. 2.5 m/s is the current world record for 50m freestyle. That's 2x25 with a hard push off the wall in the middle. Dolphin kick underwater in a racing monofin is about 30% faster, but of course you're going to lose a large chunk of that to the cylinder. Overall, yeah: I'm sure you can do 5 knots for a short while. The rest of us: not in this life.
Dealing with current
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Yes, exactly. 5 knots is about 2.6 m/s. 2.5 m/s is the current world record for 50m freestyle. That's 2x25 with a hard push off the wall in the middle. Dolphin kick underwater in a racing monofin is about 30% faster, but of course you're going to lose a large chunk of that to the cylinder. Overall, yeah: I'm sure you can do 5 knots for a short while. The rest of us: not in this life.
dumpsterDiver
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Not sure I understand what you mean about the configuration, except that you don't liked being pulled and you don't like being pushed.
Sorry dumpsterDiver. I just realized you said saddle, all the while, I'm thinking tow strap. Yes, the saddle is a stable configuration. Pushing from behind.
With the right technology, anyone who is in decent shape should be able to get in that 3 to 5 knot range. 5 knots would be a short burst sprint, but 3 knots would be a sustainable cruise speed while maintaining a low breathing rate (similar effort to walking). That's the goal anyway, and I think it can be done. The big question is whether or not I'll get around to building it. Equipment capable of a 3 knot cruise will be a quantum leap in technology from my 2 knot cruise scuba kit.
With the right technology, anyone who is in decent shape should be able to get in that 3 to 5 knot range. 5 knots would be a short burst sprint, but 3 knots would be a sustainable cruise speed while maintaining a low breathing rate (similar effort to walking). That's the goal anyway, and I think it can be done. The big question is whether or not I'll get around to building it. Equipment capable of a 3 knot cruise will be a quantum leap in technology from my 2 knot cruise scuba kit.
Again all this talk about swimming in big currents is pointless at best. Komodo is known for 8 knot currents & most websites tell you this Don't take my word for it, feel free to look for yourself. Now Guides aren't going to drop you in conditions like this but things can change underwater. Some of the best sites are pretty safe, they are just a U shaped channel where you get blown along. The sand is around 20m and there are walls either side so you only go one way. At the end of the channel the flow subsides, you hook on and watch the Mantas. It's much like a rollercoaster where it's safe but you feel out of control.
The big issue is that when divers are asked if they are okay with such sites, most say yes. It's either their ego's talking or not wanting to miss a dive. You need to be prepared to say you're not experienced with those conditions and the dive may be changed, you talked through it or in extreme cases you sit the dive out. We were on one trip where my wife and I were the only 2 who went down with the guides - as a bonus dive. The guides enjoyed being able to do that dive but it was way out of the comfort zone of the rest - they'd seen us in action on other dives. While some people were disappointed before the dive, when we came back up telling them about it they were happy not to have gone in.
Recently I was given "custody" of two new divers to the area. Both had over 1200 dives, both were advanced BSAC instructors so on paper much more experienced and qualified than I, yet they listened to me and accepted that in this case they were the novice. We had a great dive they were kind of suspect about what I was telling them it might be like pre dive but post dive they were happy to say I'd briefed them fully. So no matter how experienced you think you are, pay attention to those who dive these sites regularly.
I'd love to do a GUE fundies class. I expect if I turned up in my rig the instructor would have a hissy fit. My rig is configured to the conditions here. I have strobes, 3 x DSMB (one 12' one for the surface) An Airhorn and underwater signaling device, wing pockets, whistle, mirror etc etc. So think if you're going away what you might need. Go look at the Accidents and Incident thread to see that people are often blown away at the surface too.
@dumpsterDiver wondered why sane people throw themselves into these conditions. Fair point. My retort would be, why do people go deep into caves? At least I can see the surface, and of course the is the reward of the big fish that you wouldn't necessarily get in calmer conditions.
The big issue is that when divers are asked if they are okay with such sites, most say yes. It's either their ego's talking or not wanting to miss a dive. You need to be prepared to say you're not experienced with those conditions and the dive may be changed, you talked through it or in extreme cases you sit the dive out. We were on one trip where my wife and I were the only 2 who went down with the guides - as a bonus dive. The guides enjoyed being able to do that dive but it was way out of the comfort zone of the rest - they'd seen us in action on other dives. While some people were disappointed before the dive, when we came back up telling them about it they were happy not to have gone in.
Recently I was given "custody" of two new divers to the area. Both had over 1200 dives, both were advanced BSAC instructors so on paper much more experienced and qualified than I, yet they listened to me and accepted that in this case they were the novice. We had a great dive they were kind of suspect about what I was telling them it might be like pre dive but post dive they were happy to say I'd briefed them fully. So no matter how experienced you think you are, pay attention to those who dive these sites regularly.
I'd love to do a GUE fundies class. I expect if I turned up in my rig the instructor would have a hissy fit. My rig is configured to the conditions here. I have strobes, 3 x DSMB (one 12' one for the surface) An Airhorn and underwater signaling device, wing pockets, whistle, mirror etc etc. So think if you're going away what you might need. Go look at the Accidents and Incident thread to see that people are often blown away at the surface too.
@dumpsterDiver wondered why sane people throw themselves into these conditions. Fair point. My retort would be, why do people go deep into caves? At least I can see the surface, and of course the is the reward of the big fish that you wouldn't necessarily get in calmer conditions.
Jack Hammer
Contributor
I think 5 - 8 knot currents are well beyond the scope of this thread and the OP's intended question. We are in in the "Basic Scuba Discussions" area not the "Big Nut Diving" section. ☺
So... Rumble Rock BC Canada gets peak currents in excess of 20 knots. I wouldn't dive there expecting to neutralize the current effect either. That doesn't make swimming performance pointless.
I'm not sure if you are just trying to show machismo, or if you think there is something intrinsically safe about placing yourself at the mercy of the currents so long as you have a big sausage and an air horn. What's your plan if the motor dies on the dive boat while you are doing your leaf in the wind dive? Do you have a contingency for that? I've been on several boats that have had engine problems that took quite a while to fix. I'd want to have an alternate extraction plan, an Island or a shore that I could eventually reach under my own power. What you are doing is not my gig, and probably not most others either.
15 to 20 years ago, I did a lot of diving in the Puget Sound. I can tell you that Indonesia does not have a monopoly on strong currents. The Puget Sound gets very strong currents and they are not always flowing horizontal. There are places well known for strong down currents. It is because I have spent a lot of time diving in current that I am so interested in improving swimming performance.
I like to shore dive whenever possible. I don't care much for boats, but sometimes they are a necessary evil for accessing certain dive sites. Either way, I like to stick to the philosophy that I'm not going to get in the water unless I believe I have a viable plan for extracting myself. Once I hit the water, if someone else has to come get me to prevent a potentially life threatening situation from unfolding, then I was in over my head and need to think about what happened to prevent making the same mistakes in the future.
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So to answer your question we take safety very seriously. The dive sites are around 50 miles from the nearest port. The main boat is an Arabian dhow (with cabins) that chug along at maybe 10 knots and a 12 m speed boat with 2 outboards.
I'm quite proud of my boot handling skills on a 30' boat with outboards (our club boats) but am constantly in awe how the captain maneuvers the dhow and the boat boys maneuver the speedboat. The Dhow carries 2 J cylinders of O2 ( the 5' tall ones) and there are 2 AL80's on the speed boat. The Dhow captain has been on the seas all his life and it's his final decision on the sites. He knows the waters and the capabilities of the divers on board. I've been on board where he's pulled into shelter with calm seas. When questioned he claimed the weather was going to get up. The forecast didn't' show anything but sure enough the weather changed.
Nope you never second guess the captain.
Everyone is logged before they go in with tank pressure, mix and capacity (of all tanks. the dives are limited to max 60mins and everyone is logged out with gas out max depth and time. Everyone is positively identified and there's always a Dive manager on board who isn't' diving.
The speed boat is alway positioned after the drop off to where the divers will most likely pop up and keeps an eye out. No-one gets to dive these sites in big currents unless they've dived with us before. Almost an apprenticeship.
The procedures have been formed over the years and yes they've been learnt from hard lessons. 5 years back a CCR diver was lost on a site with no current - last seen at 10m. And yes there were reviews.
I'm also well aware about the currents in the PNW I was as shocked as anyone with the loss of TSandM bad stuff can happen to the most experienced but still we dive. You wouldn't' get me for instance on a Deep tech dive, nor into a cave or a wreck penetration into the engine room for instance. No way I consider that a step to far, but to others it's the norm and perfectly acceptable given the training, techniques, and proceedures to minimise the risks.
No the OP was how to get better experience in currents, base from a bad experience. My opinion based upon my experience was that you can't swim your way out of it you go with the flow and manage the situation along with using hints and tips that others have posted as well.
I was lucky my first big current was a (big) step up from others I'd experienced, but at least I'd experienced them. For some they get place in situations where a big current in several orders of magnitude beyond what they've ever expected. Sometimes its bad luck, sometimes it's bad operators, but if anything in this thread helps others to think about it then that's good
I'm quite proud of my boot handling skills on a 30' boat with outboards (our club boats) but am constantly in awe how the captain maneuvers the dhow and the boat boys maneuver the speedboat. The Dhow carries 2 J cylinders of O2 ( the 5' tall ones) and there are 2 AL80's on the speed boat. The Dhow captain has been on the seas all his life and it's his final decision on the sites. He knows the waters and the capabilities of the divers on board. I've been on board where he's pulled into shelter with calm seas. When questioned he claimed the weather was going to get up. The forecast didn't' show anything but sure enough the weather changed.
Nope you never second guess the captain.
Everyone is logged before they go in with tank pressure, mix and capacity (of all tanks. the dives are limited to max 60mins and everyone is logged out with gas out max depth and time. Everyone is positively identified and there's always a Dive manager on board who isn't' diving.
The speed boat is alway positioned after the drop off to where the divers will most likely pop up and keeps an eye out. No-one gets to dive these sites in big currents unless they've dived with us before. Almost an apprenticeship.
The procedures have been formed over the years and yes they've been learnt from hard lessons. 5 years back a CCR diver was lost on a site with no current - last seen at 10m. And yes there were reviews.
I'm also well aware about the currents in the PNW I was as shocked as anyone with the loss of TSandM bad stuff can happen to the most experienced but still we dive. You wouldn't' get me for instance on a Deep tech dive, nor into a cave or a wreck penetration into the engine room for instance. No way I consider that a step to far, but to others it's the norm and perfectly acceptable given the training, techniques, and proceedures to minimise the risks.
No the OP was how to get better experience in currents, base from a bad experience. My opinion based upon my experience was that you can't swim your way out of it you go with the flow and manage the situation along with using hints and tips that others have posted as well.
I was lucky my first big current was a (big) step up from others I'd experienced, but at least I'd experienced them. For some they get place in situations where a big current in several orders of magnitude beyond what they've ever expected. Sometimes its bad luck, sometimes it's bad operators, but if anything in this thread helps others to think about it then that's good
That's all very technical, or in other words, it is complicated and expensive. I like my diving to be easy, relatively inexpensive and fun. I turned away from the technical diving path about 15 years ago and I don't regret it one bit. Like I said, that's just not my gig. I don't even like dealing with boats. I generally consider a dive boat to be an excessively expensive piece of diving gear. I'll avoid them whenever I can.
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