0 viz?

[Walter]

Gary has more patience than he lets on. I've personally seen him watching over less conifident divers both at night and in low viz. In both cases, he did wonders for improving their confidence just by his manner. He's a very good man to have around on a dive. He's earned my complete respect.

The NC black water dive was a max depth of 56 ft, but the black water wasn't at the deepest point of the dive. I just read the log entry and I made no mention of the depth of the black water (not that I could see my gauges), so I'll have to guess it was in the neighborhood of 20 - 30 ft.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

The trick with the bag of clear water on the gauges works very well if your planning on staying down long. Most of the time on recovery dives your out before your running low.

They were searching for a firearm in a 1+ acre farm pond. It was only about 5 feet deep and they searched until their gas ran out (over 2 hours) since the department wouldn't bother with a metal detector. Then she caught a bunch of flack because she didn't change tanks and immediately return to the water evidently whoever was in charge had never heard of a surface interval. They never did find the pistol.
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[o2scuba]

Ramon,
Often it's the objective. For example, One may be diving in poor viz conditions with the objective of recovering an object (outboard motor, snowmobile, ATV, boat). For me anyway, I'm not usually going out on an enjoyment dive when diving in low to 0 viz. Some other examplesof low viz work: Miscleaneous tasks in reseviors, dams or water storage tanks.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I do some light commercial work every year fixing broken intake lines and head gates for irragators and zero viz is the norm and everything is done by feel. The exception is when you are on the upstream side of a stuck head gate along a river. There the viz is normally good but the water keeps trying to suck you through the partially open gate. I prefer the zero viz.

When you end up driving your face in the mud or when digging in the mud to find something in a heavily silted body of water you end up creating what amounts to somewhat thinner mud and that is what I would regard as black water as really is like diving in an ink well. I have never tried the light thing, as taking a light along in that environment never made any sense to me.

In some of the reservoirs I dive with other wise very good viz (20-30 ft) you can suddenly encounter patches of zero viz caused by dragging anchors, etc or vast areas of low viz along the bottom caused by large amounts of recent run off. It's just one of the joys of fresh water diving.

 

[Walter]

"It's just one of the joys of fresh water diving."

It's not always fresh water.

 

[dutch-scuba-kid]

Ramon,
Often it's the objective. For example, One may be diving in poor viz conditions with the objective of recovering an object (outboard motor, snowmobile, ATV, boat). For me anyway, I'm not usually going out on an enjoyment dive when diving in low to 0 viz. Some other examplesof low viz work: Miscleaneous tasks in reseviors, dams or water storage tanks.

Yeah, you're right. But I was aiming for the recreational dives. (sorry, should've put it down there along with my post)

 

[hantzu701]

I've been in water where all I can see is the glass of my mask. I guess that would be 0.

You can see the glass of your mask? Hmmm. To me, zero vis is exactly that - when you can't see anything. There is so much silt that it is pitch dark and your HID flashlight is just a faint glow on your mask. As mentioned, it is not a lot of fun. The only reason that I have done this is for S&R. People lose tanks, weightbelts, marine radios. If you're lucky, the water turns into a lighter shade of gray as you ascend which allows you a chance to see the strobe on the descent line.

I'd like to echo everyone else's opinion that this is good experience. The advantage of this kind of diving experience is increased confidence in low vis or night diving. I've been on some night dives in which conditions changed suddenly. I also find that my buddies and I have better communication skills. It's not like you can stop and scribble on your slate, so we do a better job of talking through the dive plan before we get in.

This is, essentially, solo diving - even if you have a buddy down there, so be careful. We usually don't have entanglement risk, but in hindsight, I shouldn't assume that. Even a tree branch uw can pose an entanglement risk.

 

[matt_unique]

I'am serious.

I was a Navy diver from 65-70. We did salvage and repair work on hundreds of ships and none of it was in ideal conditions. Ever change a prop while the boat was in the water? Try it when the prop (screw) is 19' tall. Ever find something you wanted to bring up off the bottom? Try a Sea Knight or Army tank out of the lovely waters of the delta's. They didn't call it a Brown Water Navy for a joke. Being around a crashed aircraft in Zero vis is not fun. Look at plans and then try and feel for what you saw topside and not get tangled up in the mess.

Then the fun stuff when your working on a ship and some jerk drops a brown trout on your head.

I was on the Genini and Apollo rescue teams. Always the bride's maid and never the bride. Until Apollo 13. I got out of the Navy 2 months later.

I've been on the same dive rescue recovery team sence Oct. 1976. In that time I have done over 200 body searches and recoveries. I've brought up people and done CPR on them. I've brought up people having to use strainers and bags to sift the bones out of the mud. I plan on doing a lot more before my body just won't take it any more.

A slow year for me now is 100 dives. I'm active and don't always dive ideal conditions. We train at least once a month (2 days) 8 months out of the year. And our goal is, from the time we arrive on scene, is to be in the water in under 3 minutes and 99% of what we do is dry.

I have had a very busy and a long active diving life. I've been in sewage recovering a body. I dove in a crude oil tank on a ship to recover a body. Is that your average dive? No but I still haven't done the one I want to do. Inside a reactor. A warm, clear basicly easy dive but I just want to do it.

I've been down on the Arizona with a team of photographers. I had a super cool skipper who stopped the ship over Challenger Deep and let us make a 200' dive. He said 150' but we did 200. Why? Just because we could.

I've had the opportunity to do some wonderful unusual and rewarding diving and I took advanytage of it. I started diving at 14 and from that time on I have only spent 7 years where I wasn't paid to dive as part of my occupation.

I don't teach because I don't have the patients for it. Once someone has the basics down I'll help with improving their skills but that's it. I have the greatest respect for diving instructors because that is one thing I'm lousy at. I work with my team in Rescue/Recovery related stuff but it's not the same as starting out with this is water and that is what you will be going into.
Everyone on the team know's it is "Do what I say not as I do" and they all agree and hold to it. There is a big difference on our comfort levels in the water. Nobody on the dive team was even born when I started so there is an big advantage on my side.

Just not the average sport diver.

Gary D.

Quite an impressive dive resume. Did I understand you correctly about being a recovery diver for Apollo 13? As in, you were one of the guys in the water that helped Jim Lovell and crew back into the recovery chopper?

--Matt

 

[Gary D.]

They were searching for a firearm in a 1+ acre farm pond. It was only about 5 feet deep and they searched until their gas ran out (over 2 hours) since the department wouldn't bother with a metal detector. Then she caught a bunch of flack because she didn't change tanks and immediately return to the water evidently whoever was in charge had never heard of a surface interval. They never did find the pistol.
Ber :lilbunny:

Anyone that gives me or anyone of my team members, or any other team member, flack for not doing a dive is going to know how wet, how deep and how cold the water is. I have put up with a lot over the years but I do not and will not put up with that crap.

Even the Navy wouldn't get on our case if we refused a dive. Even they knew you have good and bad days and on the bad ones you didn't dive.

This peer pressure crap kills people and there is no excuse for it. I guess you can see this is one of my touchy spots.

It took us 2 days to find a body in a stinking mud hole 1/4 that size and shallow enough to almost stand up in. Zero vis and it felt like a liquid compost heap.

It doesn't matter if your paid or a volunteer diver it is the same risk for the same hazard. I've backed out of clear water 30' dives because something just wasn't feeling right with me. There is nothing wrong with backing out. Done it before and I'll do it again.

Gary D.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

Gary:
Knowing her she got in the guy's face and told him how the dive was going to be run. She gets P.O.'d when someone tries to adversely affect the safety of a dive she's doing and rightly so. When she was training divers for the fire dept. they sent her a guy who had a really bad experience in the water once, I believe he had nearly died, he DID NOT want to become a S&R diver but the dept. told him he was going to. He told her his concerns and she said "Fail the swim test. I can't teach you to dive if you can't swim." He floundered around the entire time (he could swim and his superiors knew it) and she failed him. I don't think his superiors ever did get the concept that he was the LAST person they needed on a S&R team. Stupid, just stupid.
Ber