3 Day wonder certifications

[fgray1]

Does anyone here think the 3 day wonder classes are a good thing.
I think they sould be banned. In my opinion they produce incompetent divers that are a danger to themselves and the other divers around them.
And I don't just mean for open water cert.

Just my opinion

Fred

 

[jviehe]

No, some people are mature enough, and shouldnt have to sit through 6 days of training. Diving is pretty simple after all, what with dive computers and such. Most of the lecture can be done in pre class learning, and then hands on is all you need.

 

[Bryan@Vintage Double Hose]

I agree with your word SOME but I will venture that the majority of students are struggling with basic skills to say the least. Given some additional time and training they would become a much safer and more confident diver all the way around And to use a dive computer as a crutch or substitute for learing is the biggest crock of S**T I have ever heard.
Being a diving instructor is about teaching,training and mentoring. Not about how many C cards you can sell.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm not a big fan of these classes, but I don't think they should be "banned".

First off, my perspective is primarily one of a cold water diver. For our conditions I don't think these classes give you enough context to be able to dive competently ... even at an entry level. Most certification agencies really put the emphasis of their classroom material around warm-water diving conditions (since that's what most folks do), and leave it up to the instructor to provide the context for other kinds of conditions (i.e. low vis, cold water exposure protection, etc). From my perspective, the vast majority of folks who go through these week-end special classes do so because they just want to breathe underwater and really don't care to know anything else. It isn't important to them whether they have to walk on the bottom to move around, or whatever, because all they ever really intend to do is go on a vacation someplace tropical and follow a divemaster around and do whatever they're told to do. For those folks, even a longer class wouldn't help all that much because learning to be a good diver isn't their priority, and very few of them would get much more out of the class anyway.

Those divers who are interested in becoming good divers will seek out the knowledge they require one way or another ... usually with follow-on classes and by seeking out dive buddies they can learn from. That's my experience anyway, having mentored dozens such divers coming right out of OW class.

There is a definite difference in the type of divers that come out of the full-on OW class, as opposed to the week-end wonder class ... but that may be due in large part to the fact that there's a definite difference in the type of person who'd seek out each in the first place.

My opinion ... people will buy what they want to buy. Diving's a self-regulated industry, and with a pretty good safety record overall (statistically). For the most part, we're all adults and can decide for ourselves how much training we want or need to pursue this hobby. I'd like to keep it that way ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Genesis]

Does anyone here think the 3 day wonder classes are a good thing.
I think they sould be banned.

Why is it that the communists always come out of the woodwork around the holidays?

Ok, that's an intentionally-provocative statement. It was intended to be, so I guess I accomplished my goal, eh?

In all sobriety, why should you, or anyone else, have the right to tell me, as another free individual, how to allocate risk in MY life?

You say it makes others dangerous. I say "show me" how it exposes any unwilling participant to more risk than they willingly take on.

Diving is somewhat like rock climbing, in that if you f$%@ up, you cack yourself rather than others. Any attempt to claim that others "might be affected" and thus we should regulate this activity is disgusting on its face, as it attempts to force people to conform to your idea of what is acceptable risk in their lives.

Get your stinky socialist hands off my neck and leave me alone!

 

[Dive Source]

This is dangerous ground but I am going wade in and try not to offend too many people.

Scuba training has many factors that come into play, so having one rule regarding how long a course should take is not necessarily all there is to it.

In my experiance these are some of the factors that affect training success :

- Class size and instructor ratios
- Course materials provided
- Amount of home study by the student
- Quality of the instructor ( are they aware and in tune with the student or just following a script)
- Availibility of extra help ( pool and class)
- Age and maturity of the student
- Intellegence of the student (do they get it?)
- Physical fitness of student and their comfort in the water.
- Location of open water and conditions they are exposed to.(cold water OW dives can be tough
- The X factor ( there's ALWAYS an X factor)

I'm a NAUI instructor but our shop is affiliated with both PADI and NAUI and we made a decision early on to hire people based on instructor quality first, with agency ties being second. Because of this I have been fortunate enough to see a bit of both training models as well as the teaching styles and materials for both agencies ( both do a fine job providing support)

We have competitors in Toronto who really push these weekend programs for all of their training. They use catch lines like "learn to dive in a weekend gaurenteed." and while some certainly can do it, I feel many people cannot and don't like to see them given a false sense of security.

PADI talks about mastering of skills, which is a really just a way of saying - Can they do it?

Student competance (the "can they do it" factor) is certainly the true test of the training model and time spent. Ultimately the instructor must bear the weight of their responsibility to the student as well as the world they are releasing them upon and resist any outside pressures to award certification that is undeserved.

Bottom line is some people seem like fish from the moment they slip on the gear, as they are born divers so to speak (ahh... that sounds like another thread topic). Others need MUCH MORE training and others will never be able to dive no matter how much time they are given.

That's my take on it right now, I am curious to see what others have to say.

 

[Diver0001]

fgray1 once bubbled...
Does anyone here think the 3 day wonder classes are a good thing.
I think they sould be banned. In my opinion they produce incompetent divers that are a danger to themselves and the other divers around them.
And I don't just mean for open water cert.

Just my opinion

Fred

Banned? No. Everyone has to start somewhere. 3 days of training and a couple of dives in shallow, warm, clear water under direct supervision is ok for what I call an underwater camel safari. It will get people interested and some will even go on to become divers. What's wrong with that? I don't think vacation goers should be stopped from doing this kind of thing if it can be done safely but we have to recognise that they will retain virtually nothing at that tempo.

I think PADI developed the "scuba diver" cert to cover this very thing, giving students partial credit for the OW course so they can continue on at a discount when they get home and with the supervision requirement.

The problem is that some resorts "certify" people as OW divers in their resort courses despite the rediculous tempo and effectively are giving them the wrong cert for their level of training. And therein lies the rub. It's all a matter of controlling quality. If the QA were up to par then most resort courses would result in "scuba diver" certs or referrals. Where I live we occasionally *do* get "scuba diver" and "referral" people who are just back from vacation so some of the resorts are actually doing it according to the intention of the standards but unfortunately it's not just not enough.

R..

 

[mddolson]

I am in full agreement with Brian at Divesource.
I am a dual certified, NAUI, PADI instructor.

Our shop does not offer 3 day/ weekend courses.

If the the referals I recieve to do the open water training for the students is any indication, then the graduates are poorly trained and NOT well prepared for o/w diving.

I find I have to spend much more time reviewing and repeating skills that are already supposedly "mastered".
This time is typically 2 or 3 times that as graduates of a tradtional multiweek courses.

There have been a few what I refer to as "naturals" who do the skills 1st try every time. These are the exception, not the rule!

MikeD

 

[Diver0001]

Genesis once bubbled...


<snip>

In all sobriety, why should you, or anyone else, have the right to tell me, as another free individual, how to allocate risk in MY life?

<snip>

You need to relax more, Karl.

Sure everyone has different boundaries when it comes to taking risk, but have you stopped to consider that the students taking resort courses are not fully able to judge the risks?

I think you need to see someone (and if you really want a dose of reality, make sure that someone is your buddy) coughing up lung tissue and then come back to this question again and answer it yourself.

R..

 

[fgray1]

Your a funny guy.
Remind me never to dive with you!!!!!
Your scarey.
Fred