Absolutely Insane Dive Video - Cozumel

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Some interesting responses here and IMO some very defensive responses towards an underwater practice that is not part of any dive agency's code of conduct.

If there was an accident during an air-share like this, the guide would be strung out to dry. Maybe he could fall back on this thread for his defense... :shakehead:

My point exactly.

This video shows a perfectly relaxed air share potentially bordering on too relaxed. Nonetheless, there are so many assumptions that a DiveMaster would have to make in order to determine whether not this kind of plan would go off without a hitch.


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---------- Post added April 10th, 2014 at 08:15 AM ----------

Like your mask or fins, diving is all about "fit and comfort". If something makes you feel uneasy: DON'T DO IT. My second rule of diving is "You can call a dive at any time, for any reason, with no questions and no repercussions. IOW, what's wrong for you might be OK for someone else.

Then don't do it. Develop your Scuba so you will never need it. Like I pointed out, the real culprit was trim and sculling. That wastes a ton of air. Get those under control and you will be amazed at how long your air lasts.

Those skills (or lack of them) could have very well resulted in one or more deaths. No, not the air share, but the lack of trim and the poor kicking skills. They would have silted any overhead out in a few seconds and the ensuing panic would have made it worse.

The divers in the video are typical tourist divers. They have no desire to master some skills mostly because they were never introduced to those skills. I don't blame the divers, I blame their instructor. Hopefully, they will find SB and start to learn that they need to improve. It's a Mexican law that all these tourists have to have a guide. A local guide. It helps the local economy, but they do a few things that I would not/do not do.

I agree with you about the trim, and buoyancy.

I also agree that any diver can call the dive for any reason.


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If there was an accident [-]during an air-share like this,[/-] the guide would be strung out to dry.
I fixed it for you. It really wouldn't matter the cause of the accident, but the professionals are always held accountable.
 
Is there something particular or unique about Cozumel diving that makes the dive ops require their divers descend and ascend together? Do all Cozumel boats follow this procedure?

Live boat diving / drift diving - the boat follows the divers as best it can along the perceived drift, most of the time it's business as usual and the boat captain gets it right and is waiting where the divers surface, sometimes circumstances can change and reduce the odds, such as a storm rolls in, a captain makes a mistake watching the bubbles, two dive groups cross each other under water and bubbles become confused and the captain follows the wrong group... on and on... so sending the group on a drift dive down as a group and up as a group is safer than sending up buddy teams separately. (Do all dive operators in Cozumel do this? No. Many do not follow this policy, it's viewed as a safer alternative and followed by some) Further, more reasons why it's done - the dive master can't really follow each buddy team to the surface without abandoning the others, he really can't yoyo up and down 100ft three times over three dives each day safely, so the choice would be to send up a buddy team and they are on their own, if there is a problem with the boat finding them that complicates the day. So the safest method is everybody down, everybody up. The owner of Aldora who started this practice of the airshare and who's personal belief is doing it different than everybody else and has a policy of everybody down and everybody up at the same time has also said that when he first started this practice Cozumel had a problem with divers getting near misses and even hit by dive boats at the time and that was part of his initial reason for it, that has improved but he still wants his divers diving as a group and that is why the air share is one of his companies policy's.

The same guy who pioneered this safety measure is also responsible for pioneering many of the safety procedures dives enjoy in Cozumel today. Not long ago he was personally responsible for increasing everyone's safety by getting CO monitoring established in the islands main tank fill operation, he even put his own money into it to make it happen, since then he's taken it to the next level and is one of the very few who actually has his own tank fill operation so he can personally ensure his diver's air safety, he recently put nautilus lifelines on all his dive masters and boats, all of his dive masters are instructors, not just dive masters, and very experienced with some routinely having 10,000-12,000 dives under the belts. That's why this is all a little eye rolling, since the video depicts either an Aldora dive, or a rare example of one of only a handful of dive operators that follow the 'Adora way' the process that they use, and Aldora is known for being one of the safest, most innovative and pioneering dive operations on the island, not to mention the most successful and established. If you know the owner Dave you know he's by far leaps and bounds ahead of so many dive operators in Cozumel when it comes to safety, it makes all of this kind like... (yawn). This is the same guy who is the only guy on the island who has the safety measures in place to dive the East side of the island, nobody else can do it, he's also one of the few if not the only dive operation that can dive on somedays when all other dive operators are banned from leaving the harbor due to weather, one of his boats the Felicity can be the only boat allowed out. Why? Because the other operators are operating boats too small or too un-sea worthy to be allowed out, he's the only guy who opened up any new dive sites in the last 20 years by exploration paid for out of his own pocket and is introducing new dive sites while establishing stringent safety policies and experience level testing before letting divers participate. Nobody else does any of this. And the guy has pioneered a method to extend bottom time to his groups and some people are freaking out like this is the most dangerous thing they've ever seen before.:shakehead:

And the long and the short of all the controversy is not a single person who is so alarmed has been able to come up with anything solid as evidence of why it's wrong or any evidence of any training agency condemning it, nothing, all that can be really brought up as evidence is a 'feeling' that you just don't care for it.
 
Mike....I smell a new PADI course a comin'.........:)

---------- Post added April 10th, 2014 at 06:40 AM ----------

BINGO---NetDoc on "the instructor" being @ fault.........With the advent of 'sniff 'em(the students) by' OW training classes to make the buck, in reality what else can we expect.....I'm thinking in '85 when we(wife & I) got certified, things were a little different.....
 
Live boat diving / drift diving - the boat follows the divers as best it can along the perceived drift, most of the time it's business as usual and the boat captain gets it right and is waiting where the divers surface, sometimes circumstances can change and reduce the odds, such as a storm rolls in, a captain makes a mistake watching the bubbles, two dive groups cross each other under water and bubbles become confused and the captain follows the wrong group... on and on... so sending the group on a drift dive down as a group and up as a group is safer than sending up buddy teams separately. (Do all dive operators in Cozumel do this? No. Many do not follow this policy, it's viewed as a safer alternative and followed by some) Further, more reasons why it's done - the dive master can't really follow each buddy team to the surface without abandoning the others, he really can't yoyo up and down 100ft three times over three dives each day safely, so the choice would be to send up a buddy team and they are on their own, if there is a problem with the boat finding them that complicates the day. So the safest method is everybody down, everybody up. The owner of Aldora who started this practice of the airshare and who's personal belief is doing it different than everybody else and has a policy of everybody down and everybody up at the same time has also said that when he first started this practice Cozumel had a problem with divers getting near misses and even hit by dive boats at the time and that was part of his initial reason for it, that has improved but he still wants his divers diving as a group and that is why the air share is one of his companies policy's...//...

Thanks Mike. I was just curious about this policy. I only have drift dives in south Florida for comparison where they will typically let divers ascend individually or buddy pairs and will often drop more than one group off the boat. I admit, if I booked a trip with a dive op in Cozumel then had to end the dives early due to an air hog I would be royally...disturbed.
 
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seems to be a big assumption that its a DM in a video. Its not at all unusual in certain locations for a guide to be only certified to AOW or even just OW. They learn by diving and they dive to keep customers happy the drawback can be a more looser idea of safety. If the diver rocked up and said he had never dove and was uncertified then yes blame the dive op but I'm assuming that their both at the very least certified divers in which case their both equally responsible for whatever happens.
 
I admit, if I booked a trip with a dive op in Cozumel then had to end the dives early due to an air hog I would be royally...disturbed.

This is part of the reason that Aldora in Cozumel is so successful, not only are they one of only 3 operations that offer steel 120's, but all their focus is on extended bottom times, which appeals to a lot of people. Those big tanks don't do you much good if the worst breather in a group determines everybody else's bottom time. Not only do they have the long hose method in place, but they are also one of the very few dive operators on the island who segregate divers by ability on different boats. Everyone who dives with them is being silently evaluated on their first day of diving, on the second day you might not recognize anybody you dived with the day before because you've now been put on a boat with people of similar abilities, either a newbie boat or an advanced boat, so now you potentially have access to the more advanced sites since a newbie lacking the abilities to dive them won't be on the dives with you and holding the group's choices back. We typically average 70-80 minute dives regularly diving with them, with some 90 minute dives here and there.

---------- Post added April 10th, 2014 at 11:01 AM ----------

seems to be a big assumption that its a DM in a video. Its not at all unusual in certain locations for a guide to be only certified to AOW or even just OW. They learn by diving and they dive to keep customers happy the drawback can be a more looser idea of safety.

Maybe true elsewhere, but since this is a video that says it is in Cozumel, its highly doubtful. Mexico is a very closed dive community due to the Mexican 1:10 ratios of foreign to local employement regulations. In other words a dive operation in Cozumel has to employ 9 locals before it can hire 1 foreigner, since most dive operations don't even hit 10 employees, you can imagine the diving community is almost 100% Mexican, this keeps the transient nature of dive mastering very low there, many of the dive masters you will meet there are 4000, 5000,12,000 dives under their belts and have dived almost exclusively in the Yucatan area only. I travel and dive in many other locations and what you said is pretty typical, it's not unusual in some places for the divers to have more experience than the dive master, but that's rarely the case in Cozumel.
 
Thanks Mike. I was just curious about this policy. I only have drift dives in south Florida for comparison where they will typically let divers ascend individually or buddy pairs and will often drop more than one group off the boat. I admit, if I booked a trip with a dive op in Cozumel then had to end the dives early due to an air hog I would be royally...disturbed.

There is one huge difference between south Florida and Cozumel that has not been mentioned. In south Florida, all the drift diving is done in small groups with each group holding a long line attached to a float and flag. The float and flag allows their boat to follow them with absolute accuracy, and it keeps other boats away. You can do that in south Florida because the reefs are flat, and their edges are only a few feet above the flat sand floor. In Cozumel many of the coral formation tower hundreds of feet from the bottom. They are complex structures, sometimes with maze-like characteristics. Divers routinely go through coral tunnels. It is thus not possible to hold a line attached to a float and flag. The dive boat tries to follow the group's bubbles as they move along, and the dive master tries to keep the whole group together. Occasionally a diver may ascend alone for unplanned reasons. Hopefully the boat will see them and pick them up. Other times they don't see them, and that results in a search. Sometimes the search is not successful. More than a few such divers have disappeared for good after an individual ascent.
 
Learning to shoot a SMB from depth goes a long way to ameliorate those types of issues, John. When we invaded Cozumel as a group, each boat had three or four SMBs shot at the end of each dive.
 
Learning to shoot a SMB from depth goes a long way to ameliorate those types of issues, John. When we invaded Cozumel as a group, each boat had three or four SMBs shot at the end of each dive.

I fully agree. I have said several times on the Cozumel forum that all divers there should at least be required to carry SMBs. Shooting a bag is harder than it looks, so I think people should make sure they know what they are doing in a more benign environment before doing it in an emergency there.
 
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