Absolutely Insane Dive Video - Cozumel

[BRT]

I've dove in Quintana Roo most every year since 1996 and the only redundant air supply I have ever seen on anybody else was the dive master in a cavern, and those doubles were leaking.

 

[Mike]

My thoughts were that perhaps this diver did not belong at 100 feet. I still believe it. I don't dive without a pony but i guess that's my choice. I thought that PADI teaches that upon a free flow regulator, once the diver is placed on buddy octo, in this case DM the proper next step is to ascend at a safe rate. That is what the course teaches. I have <60 dives under my belt so perhaps i need to re read the book and retake the class. Nowhere did i see that its acceptable to place buddy on air and continue another 15 minutes at 100 foot depth. What did I miss or mis understand?

Here is exactly what you saw -

Diver at whatever depth, say it's 100 ft, I can't tell. The assumption has to be that the diver is qualified to the depth. Diver may be qualified, but he's definitely not accomplished and appears to be a mess. Maybe it's due to he is a vacation diver and he is getting his scuba legs back and this is one of his early dives beginning his dive vacation.

DM put the guy on his long hose to extend the divers bottom time. The diver wasn't low on air or having any malfunctions in equipment requiring buddy breathing, typically a DM in some dive ops in Coz will share air with a diver when his air gets to 1500 psi, extending the dive for that diver and everyone, the DM most likely had 1800-2000 psi when he put the diver on his long hose. The free flowing reg? I don't see any alarm, I've had a dozen free flowing regs over the years that require me to bang it with my hand and stop it and continue on, nothing alarming, no massive equipment failure to call a dive, nothing worse than say my fin slips on my foot and I adjust the strap in the middle of the dive. Again the diver may or may not know how to fix the free flow, but the DM just jumped in and took care of it.The same thing with the DM changing or adjusting the guys weights, big deal. Just a tweak to the guys weights because again, the diver was probably on his first dives. If I got a dollar for everytime a DM gave a vacation diver an additional weight at depth in the divers first couple of dives while the diver is trying to find their proper weighting I'd be rich. Adjusting a divers weighting by a lb or two is just a tweak, dialing them in, nothing huge, he isn't adding 20 lbs to the guy. The typical scenario almost always goes like this - on the boat:

Diver master - "How much weight do you need?"
Diver-"Uh,,, I think 10 lbs..."
Dive master -"Are you sure?"
Diver --"Not really, I think the last time I dived I used 10"
Dive master -" Okay here is 10, I will bring along 4 more lbs just in case"

During the dive it's obvious the diver is light, DM gives the guy 2 lbs, or clips it on him or something along those lines.

Back on the boat

Dive master - "Was the 12 better for you?"
Diver - "Yeah, thanks, I think I was too light at 10, 12 felt better I might try 14 on the next dive"
Dive master -" no problem, hey did you see that nurse shark?"

Again there was no OOA, no low on air, no malfunction, the DM put the diver on his long hose long before he was low, the diver sucked on the dive masters long hose for awhile, then continued the dive sucking his own tank from 1500 to 1000 psi, when the next diver signaled he was at 1000 psi, the dive was over.

Nothing alarming, very routine.

The only thing in question is the diver being qualified to even be at that depth and where was his buddy at? Not that not seeing anybody appearing to be his buddy puts the DM at fault, rather it puts the diver at fault. You asked where was his redundant air supply at, the answer is on his buddies back, where was his buddy? He might have been there, or maybe he never even paired up, but that's certainly not the DM's responsibility. Was the diver qualified to be there? He might have his AOW and Rescue card for all we know, there are plenty of divers who zip right along and get the cards with the very bare minimum dives to accomplish it and are total wrecks underwater but they can show the cards.

 

[diver 85]

Here is exactly what you saw -

Diver at whatever depth, say it's 100 ft, I can't tell. The assumption has to be that the diver is qualified to the depth. Diver may be qualified, but he's definitely not accomplished and appears to be a mess. Maybe it's due to he is a vacation diver and he is getting his scuba legs back and this is one of his early dives beginning his dive vacation.

DM put the guy on his long hose to extend the divers bottom time. The diver wasn't low on air or having any malfunctions in equipment requiring buddy breathing, typically a DM in some dive ops in Coz will share air with a diver when his air gets to 1500 psi, extending the dive for that diver and everyone, the DM most likely had 1800-2000 psi when he put the diver on his long hose. The free flowing reg? I don't see any alarm, I've had a dozen free flowing regs over the years that require me to bang it with my hand and stop it and continue on, nothing alarming, no massive equipment failure to call a dive, nothing worse than say my fin slips on my foot and I adjust the strap in the middle of the dive. Again the diver may or may not know how to fix the free flow, but the DM just jumped in and took care of it.The same thing with the DM changing or adjusting the guys weights, big deal. Just a tweak to the guys weights because again, the diver was probably on his first dives. If I got a dollar for everytime a DM gave a vacation diver an additional weight at depth in the divers first couple of dives while the diver is trying to find their proper weighting I'd be rich. Adjusting a divers weighting by a lb or two is just a tweak, dialing them in, nothing huge, he isn't adding 20 lbs to the guy. The typical scenario almost always goes like this - on the boat:

Diver master - "How much weight do you need?"
Diver-"Uh,,, I think 10 lbs..."
Dive master -"Are you sure?"
Diver --"Not really, I think the last time I dived I used 10"
Dive master -" Okay here is 10, I will bring along 4 more lbs just in case"

During the dive it's obvious the diver is light, DM gives the guy 2 lbs, or clips it on him or something along those lines.

Back on the boat

Dive master - "Was the 12 better for you?"
Diver - "Yeah, thanks, I think I was too light at 10, 12 felt better I might try 14 on the next dive"
Dive master -" no problem, hey did you see that nurse shark?"

Again there was no OOA, no low on air, no malfunction, the DM put the diver on his long hose long before he was low, the diver sucked on the dive masters long hose for awhile, then continued the dive sucking his own tank from 1500 to 1000 psi, when the next diver signaled he was at 1000 psi, the dive was over.

Nothing alarming, very routine.

The only thing in question is the diver being qualified to even be at that depth and where was his buddy at? Not that not seeing anybody appearing to be his buddy puts the DM at fault, rather it puts the diver at fault. You asked where was his redundant air supply at, the answer is on his buddies back, where was his buddy? He might have been there, or maybe he never even paired up, but that's certainly not the DM's responsibility. Was the diver qualified to be there? He might have his AOW and Rescue card for all we know, there are plenty of divers who zip right along and get the cards with the very bare minimum dives to accomplish it and are total wrecks underwater but they can show the cards.

+1 on the write up, Mike....

Typical CZM dive-----for some........ No Harm----No Foul......

 

[TONY CHANEY]

Here is exactly what you saw -

Diver at whatever depth, say it's 100 ft, I can't tell. The assumption has to be that the diver is qualified to the depth. Diver may be qualified, but he's definitely not accomplished and appears to be a mess. Maybe it's due to he is a vacation diver and he is getting his scuba legs back and this is one of his early dives beginning his dive vacation.

DM put the guy on his long hose to extend the divers bottom time. The diver wasn't low on air or having any malfunctions in equipment requiring buddy breathing, typically a DM in some dive ops in Coz will share air with a diver when his air gets to 1500 psi, extending the dive for that diver and everyone, the DM most likely had 1800-2000 psi when he put the diver on his long hose. The free flowing reg? I don't see any alarm, I've had a dozen free flowing regs over the years that require me to bang it with my hand and stop it and continue on, nothing alarming, no massive equipment failure to call a dive, nothing worse than say my fin slips on my foot and I adjust the strap in the middle of the dive. Again the diver may or may not know how to fix the free flow, but the DM just jumped in and took care of it.The same thing with the DM changing or adjusting the guys weights, big deal. Just a tweak to the guys weights because again, the diver was probably on his first dives. If I got a dollar for everytime a DM gave a vacation diver an additional weight at depth in the divers first couple of dives while the diver is trying to find their proper weighting I'd be rich. Adjusting a divers weighting by a lb or two is just a tweak, dialing them in, nothing huge, he isn't adding 20 lbs to the guy. The typical scenario almost always goes like this - on the boat:

Diver master - "How much weight do you need?"
Diver-"Uh,,, I think 10 lbs..."
Dive master -"Are you sure?"
Diver --"Not really, I think the last time I dived I used 10"
Dive master -" Okay here is 10, I will bring along 4 more lbs just in case"

During the dive it's obvious the diver is light, DM gives the guy 2 lbs, or clips it on him or something along those lines.

Back on the boat

Dive master - "Was the 12 better for you?"
Diver - "Yeah, thanks, I think I was too light at 10, 12 felt better I might try 14 on the next dive"
Dive master -" no problem, hey did you see that nurse shark?"

Again there was no OOA, no low on air, no malfunction, the DM put the diver on his long hose long before he was low, the diver sucked on the dive masters long hose for awhile, then continued the dive sucking his own tank from 1500 to 1000 psi, when the next diver signaled he was at 1000 psi, the dive was over.

Nothing alarming, very routine.

The only thing in question is the diver being qualified to even be at that depth and where was his buddy at? Not that not seeing anybody appearing to be his buddy puts the DM at fault, rather it puts the diver at fault. You asked where was his redundant air supply at, the answer is on his buddies back, where was his buddy? He might have been there, or maybe he never even paired up, but that's certainly not the DM's responsibility. Was the diver qualified to be there? He might have his AOW and Rescue card for all we know, there are plenty of divers who zip right along and get the cards with the very bare minimum dives to accomplish it and are total wrecks underwater but they can show the cards.

And you know all of this to be fact? Pure 100% BS! No one puts anyone on their long hose because there is no problem. And BTW, how in the heck do you know the PSI pre and post.

Plain and simple: you donate your reg, put the receiver diver in front and you exit in the safest manner. No reading into if the diver is certified, depth, overhead, air remaining, temp, vis, etc. You are only adding to the cluster F%^$ that others may follow.

 

[TMHeimer]

Mike, Appreciate your input. It's easy for someone like me who only "vacation" dived once to think this is a pretty bizarre video. But as you say, there are things about the dive/diver that we just don't know.

 

[diver 85]

And you know all of this to be fact? Pure 100% BS! No one puts anyone on their long hose because there is no problem. And BTW, how in the heck do you know the PSI pre and post.

Plain and simple: you donate your reg, put the receiver diver in front and you exit in the safest manner. No reading into if the diver is certified, depth, overhead, air remaining, temp, vis, etc. You are only adding to the cluster F%^$ that others may follow.

What do you consider 'no problem'??........DM KNOWING (newbie)diver is an air hog---in my book--is not a problem.....(Let's assume)DM has dived with him several days(in a row) & knows 10 minutes or so into dive 'it's time to give ole Joe my octo'----so the other divers on this dive won't 'shoot me' for only having 30 minutes BT........Again I say---No Harm...No foul....It's like that on CZM.........


EDIT.....Again I'll state it happened on both(2 cruise ship) dives there a few weeks ago---------ie some newbie was breathing on the DM's octo no more than 15 minutes down......I'm assuming as in my above statement he had dived with the dive op. several times in the previous few days----with the same DM.........Did it bother me any---hell no, we(the small group) got our BT in & everyone was happy when the sun set that evening.........

 

[SeahorseDeb]

The OP started the thread stating it was 100 feet. Give or take 20, the diver didn't look capable of handling that depth. Even if he held an "Advanced" cert, he shows he's not capable of the depth,....I'm glad this video didn't show a death or embolism. And we shake our heads and wonder......

 

[Mike]

And you know all of this to be fact?

Pretty much.

Pure 100% BS! No one puts anyone on their long hose because there is no problem.

You're in for a surprise. It's routine in Cozumel by certain dive operations, I've also seen it in other locations, I've also read reports of it done in Belize, you've just not run into it yet. As they say, you can learn something new everyday.

It's done for one reason and one reason only -- to extend the bottom time of all the divers on a group dive with a dive operator that descends and ascends as a group, it's done every day in Cozumel, you're just not aware of it. It's done in a controlled, prescribed manner based on precise steps based on PSI's.

Go do a search in the Cozumel forum specifically for "Aldora "and you'll find hundreds of posts referencing everything I listed.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

What do you consider 'no problem'??........DM KNOWING (newbie)diver is an air hog---in my book--is not a problem.....(Let's assume)DM has dived with him several days(in a row) & knows 10 minutes or so into dive 'it's time to give ole Joe my octo'----so the other divers on this dive won't 'shoot me' for only having 30 minutes BT........Again I say---No Harm...No foul....It's like that on CZM.........
EDIT.....Again I'll state it happened on both(2 cruise ship) dives there a few weeks ago---------ie some newbie was breathing on the DM's octo no more than 15 minutes down......I'm assuming as in my above statement he had dived with the dive op. several times in the previous few days----with the same DM.........Did it bother me any---hell no, we(the small group) got our BT in & everyone was happy when the sun set that evening.........

Simple answer...you tell ole Joe that he is not ready for this dive and we will a much shallower dive within his ability. There is so much more aquatic life to see at 30' than 100' and all is safe. On the other hand you can continue to watch ole Joe continue to screw up and hoping that it gets better or his actions do not get you or him killed. The truth hurts for a while but death is forever!

---------- Post added April 8th, 2014 at 01:03 AM ----------

Pretty much.



You're in for a surprise. It's routine in Cozumel by certain dive operations, I've also seen it in other locations, I've also read reports of it done in Belize, you've just not run into it yet. As they say, you can learn something new everyday.

It's done for one reason and one reason only -- to extend the bottom time of all the divers on a group dive with a dive operator that descends and ascends as a group, it's done every day in Cozumel, you're just not aware of it. It's done in a controlled, prescribed manner based on precise steps based on PSI's.

Go do a search in the Cozumel forum specifically for "Aldora "and you'll find hundreds of posts referencing everything I listed.

There is really not much worse than falling into the, "that is the way it has been done in the past" concept. In health care and Marine Corps' aviation I have asked, "so it has been screwed up that long?" "What have you done to correct the situation?"

 

[supergaijin]

1. What is the this diver doing at 100 ? no redundant air supply? clearly inexperienced

The diver was at that depth because the DM took him there. The DM has not judged the diver's ability very well and has taken him deeper than he should ever have been. Inexperienced? The DM may well have been.

2. Lets check buoyacy and add weights at 100 feet right at he edge of a wall!! Great idea !

Difficult to judge depth- the diver obviously descended but may have been pulled under by the DM. The DM adds weight to pre-empt the inevitable ascent due to the diver breathing too hard. The diver was breathing approx 3x faster than 'normal' and once in the shallows, that would be enough to make him cork to the surface.

3. What was this DM thinking?????

Not much IMHO. The DM decided to guide at that depth even though the diver was blowing through his gas. Instead of ascending to extend the dive, he donated gas effectively rendering himself unavailable to deal with any other problem that may have occurred to others in the group. Possibly his narcosis made him think that this would be OK.

He then drifts further out from the wall where the current usually increases and so pulls the other diver along by the hose. The DM spots something and swims to the wall- if this pulled the reg from the divers mouth, it is quite possible that the diver would inhale water leading to a possible panic ascent. Again- this is a really bad practice IMO.

4. No immediate attempt to ascend at a safe rate following the free flow.

The free-flow happened because the diver inhaled from his reg, then removed it with the mouthpiece facing up- the inhalation which opened the valve, and then the orientation of the reg caused the free flow which was corrected by inverting the reg and maybe putting a finger over the mouthpiece. THis allowed enough pressure to build in the second stage to close the valve. This is perfectly normal and will happen to any 'properly' tuned reg.

5. What do we take away from this?

This practice is fairly common- but that does not mean it is good or wise. DM-led cattle divers place total trust in the DM and yet this DM opts to make himself unavailable to respond to any 'real' emergency. The DM is guiding at a depth which is inappropriate for the breathing rate of the diver- again the DM is at fault IMO.

Bad decision making and bad diving practices- just another day at the office it seems for some.