Accident at Vortex Springs 8-20-10

[Kevin Carlisle]

When all the details are released things will be a lot clearer. No sign, gate or anything else could prevent this. Attitude is everything in diving, be it OW or cave. The wrong attitude and ego makes for dangerous situations. Thankfully all who tried to recover the body made it out ok. Some people think the cave at Vortex is safe and easy. Truthfully it is, until something goes wrong. The area beyond the gate can be as dangerous as any that I have been in, deep and silty. Hopefully someone will read about this and decide to look for training before breaking any training standards. My last dive there was with SuPeRbUgMaN and SPD135. There was a large collapse in the system the next day, if any OW divers had been in the tunnel before the gate that day they probably would have died. With proper training its an inconvienance, not an emergency.

 

[wjefferis]

There has been talk on the thread about accident analysis and while someone who is cavern/cave trained knows what this means I realize that many do not. I wanted to try and explain for those you might not already know.

"Accident Analysis over the years has played a big role in developing the safety guidelines for safe cave diving. The NSS-CDS in the late 1970s organized a study of the cave diving fatalities for which information existed. As a result of this study, Sheck Exley discovered that three primary safety violations accounted for, at least part of, all of the fatalities. The three safety violations were the beginnings of organizing a list of safety guidelines that could be taught to new cave divers and shared with current cave divers in the hopes of making cave diving as a whole much safer. In 1983, Wes Skiles, who was the Training Chairman for the NSS-CDS, expanded the safety violation list to account for two other accident-contributing factors. The lists of these safety violations and contributing factors are presented as Accident Analysis" (NSS-CDS Workbook, 2002).

1. Failure to be properly trained or exceeding the level and limits of one’s training. (A major contributing cause of cave and cavern diving fatalities).

2. Failure to use a continuous guideline from the entrance of the cave and throughout the dive. (The most common direct contributing cause of cave and cavern diving fatalities).

3. Failure to reserve at least two-thirds of the beginning air supply for exiting the cave. (The second most common direct contributing cause of cave and cavern diving fatalities).

4. Exceeding the maximum depth limits for your level of training or the complications of depth (increased breathing gas usage); maximium depth limit for cavern or basic cave is 100 feet, and 130 for any other recreational cave diving activity. Also exceeding the Maximum Operation Depth (MOD) of the gas used. (The third most common direct cause of cave and cavern diving fatalities.)

5. Failure to carry at least three battery powered lights. (A major contribution factor).


These are the "five rules of cave diving." I hope this helps to clear things up a little.

 

[Cave Diver]

Thanks for the info Kev.

My last dive there was with SuPeRbUgMaN and SPD135. There was a large collapse in the system the next day, if any OW divers had been in the tunnel before the gate that day they probably would have died. With proper training its an inconvienance, not an emergency.

When did this collapse occur and what part of the tunnel did it happen in?

 

[Cave Diver]

There has been talk on the thread about accident analysis and while someone who is cavern/cave trained knows what this means I wanted to explain for those you might not already know.

Something else that people without cavern/cave training may not know is that most of the popular Florida caves have this sign near the entrance as a warning to untrained divers.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Thanks for the info Kev.



When did this collapse occur and what part of the tunnel did it happen in?

It happened in what's called the blue room. Its the first room past the long restriction where you go from 128ft in depth to the 140s. I think this was February, would have to check my dive log to be sure. I know it was after flows at several caves had picked up after being minimal for a few months.

 

[drrich2]

I still think the biggest problem is the cave community turning a blind eye towards OW divers in caverns and caves.

I'm a big fan of publicizing the danger of cave diving to divers to discourage the unqualified (like me) from trying to dive them.

On the other hand, it's a partially free country, and when an adult of informed decisional capacity makes a personal decision to engage in a high risk endeavor, why is there such a sense that it's up to the rest of us to 'do something' about it? What are the certified cave divers supposed to do; start making citizens' arrests? At what point do we accept that the responsibility belongs to the diver who made the decision? I'm sympathetic to the diver and his family; I'm simply not a fan of knee jerk regulation to 'make sure this never happens again.'

For that matter, I'm not convinced the rescue team should 'push the envelope' of risk trying to find & retrieve the body. He's dead. How much risk should other people be put at just to get a body?

Richard.

 

[Hetland]

A few more thoughts after reading more:

I might have misread the vulture comment, and if it was aimed at the media then, in many ways I agree. Perhaps 1 post won't be enough to satisfy the poster and he/she will come in more to post and elaborate further. I'm all up for good discussion!

The press is doing their job. One could just as easily say that WE were the vultures. I think the biggest problem people legitimately have with the press is that they get details wrong (typically "Oxygen" tank) but in most cases the press just parrots what they are told by folks on the scene. Expecting every reporter to be a diving expert is unreasonable.

Faking a cave diving death would be a good way to put them off my trail. However, I cannot imagine an untrained diver planning something this well, to send so many signs of a panicked diver (marks in clay, broken guideline, at depths possibly exceeding a safe MOD or END for his gas mixture)

It wouldn't REQUIRE training, only patience, logic and dedication. Personally, I think it's wild speculation. I think it would be far more likely that he found a girlfriend, and was shacked up somewhere. At the moment, I don't believe either option is the case though.

What will make this even more difficult is rigor mortis. Once they locate the body, it might take several dives to retrieve the remains.

rigor is not permanent.

Perhaps signs at dive sites warning of doom are not enough. How much would it cost to print an additional small sign to go under current signs stating "Untrained divers, statistics are against you. __% of fatalities in a cave are open water divers. Cave training is not very expensive. Think of your family, and invest in training before attempting to dive this cave." ? Perhaps it would influence divers.

Everyone knows you should wear a seatbelt, but people still drive without them. Same thing with motorcycle helmets. How many people on this board have taken a drive after drinking 2 or 3 beers? You can only do so much to prevent people from taking risks. You can try to scare people out of caves, but for every 100 you scare, there will be 5 that are hopelessly drawn to that danger. IMHO, education (as part of OW training) is a far better option than a sign. Rob's videos are a great example.

I still think the biggest problem is the cave community turning a blind eye towards OW divers in caverns and caves.

What can the cave community do? Carry dive batons, and beat the legs of OW divers entering cave systems? How do you know a cave diver underwater? Certainly anyone can purchase cave gear, that doesn't make them a cave diver. Some fully-trained cave divers probably don't belong in caves either. Who gets to be in charge of the cave-police, and decide which divers are worthy?

I think another big problem is inadequate open water classes. I am becoming more and more certain that a one weekend class is not enough to make for a safe diver. I think open water books do not cover this nearly well enough.

I think it's more the instructor and student than the curriculum. I took about two months to finish my OW classes. I was lucky enough to have chose an LDS that would let me have unlimited pool sessions to practice between classes, and was encouraged to take as much time as I wanted between classes (up to a month) to practice skills.

Additionally, a certification of any level, from any agency does not make a save diver.

 

[Cave Diver]

On the other hand, it's a partially free country, and when an adult of informed decisional capacity makes a personal decision to engage in a high risk endeavor, why is there such a sense that it's up to the rest of us to 'do something' about it? What are the certified cave divers supposed to do; start making citizens' arrests? At what point do we accept that the responsibility belongs to the diver who made the decision? I'm sympathetic to the diver and his family; I'm simply not a fan of knee jerk regulation to 'make sure this never happens again.'

Because when someone exceeds their training and experience and gets killed doing so it's a liability for the landowner that the cave is located on. The pressure from public sources about an attractive nuisance and the increased cost of liability insurance causes them to close access to those of us who have spent a ton of money and time and pursue the sport in a safe, educated manner.

So, a careless decision affects a lot more than the diver who makes it and I for one, would damn sure attempt to stop an OW diver if I saw them attempting such a dive. YMMV.

 

[Splitlip]

JahJahwarrior, I appreciate your posts and viewpoints - keep it up.

It would be helpful if brand-new OW divers were taught in their courses how incredibly irresponsible and foolish it is to enter a cave without training. Dive-aholic's sig line videos would be a good start.

When JahJah posted earlier that $1000 of cave training would have saved a life, I almost responded that $250.00 of basic open water should.

Then it occurred to me, when one of my friend's teenager got his open water, (2 30ft blue water dives and 2 60 footers), Dad and the boy showed up at the house and asked me if I would would take the kid to the springs because "he really wants to dive a cave.".

So yeah, maybe if common sense and the media does not get the message across, it should be part BOW.

Prayers and sympathy for the deceased and his family and prayers and respect for those involved in the recovery.

 

[Crush]

What are the certified cave divers supposed to do; start making citizens' arrests?

Cave certified divers should pretend that they are having a problem with their lights, motion to the OW diver to let the cave diver see the non-cave diver's flashlight, open up the flashlight underwater, collect the batteries (conservation first) and hand the flashlight and batteries back to the non-cave diver. Less chance for trouble if the OW diver is confined to a daylight zone.