Accident at Vortex Springs 8-20-10

[Imagineer7.1]

OOPS...I have been reading this thread...and NO...that has been mentioned elsewhere...but NOT here. If you are only reading here...you do not have that information.

Can you say where it has been posted? I am interested to read.

 

[Cleavitt]

Thanks for the answer by providing excellent video. You simulated silt out by keeping eyes closed? Or it was just that difficult to re-establish the main line?

His eyes were closed as part of the drill. His buddies knew where the line was. Many times these drills end (due to time constraints) without the line being found. It's not a situation that a cave diver wants to experience in real life, but you do have to be prepared for it. Of course that is the purpose of the drill he was doing. If you cave dive enough you will probably find yourself off the line in zero viz at some point. The difference between the drill and real life is in the drill you have to give up at some point if you can't find the line, open your eyes, and surface. In a real lost line situation, you have the rest of your life to find that line.

I thought maybe the direction of flow might assist in at least determining the direction back toward the exit.
The video of UCFdiver speaks volumes though.

Flow can be helpful as a clue, but the cave passages are still very confusing when you can't see where you are going. Also, keep in mind that the flow often dies down in the back sections of the cave, especially the small areas where the cave system is starting to "fade away" into just a bunch of cracks in the limestone rather than what would be considered a cave passage navigable by humans.

 

[mkutyna]

It's not like being drunk, it's much more subtle. It's like taking a ram chip out of a computer. You have less reasoning. Memory is impaired. Your inhibitions are reduced. An activity that you would shun on the surface seems perfectly okay at depth. A task that is simple at the surface becomes more difficult, and takes longer to complete.

Most people don't recognize their impairment, but they are impaired.

I really like this description. Very concise and too the point.

 

[regena]

What Is Wrong With You People? We don't even know at this point if Ben has expired! IT IS NOW CONSIDERED A CRIME SCENE! Not to say a crime has taken place but for goodness sake can't you divers stop saying these things about him until we know? They are fine , wonderful people - All of them! If he went down, something strange happened to him, but they are obviously looking at other possibilities! Oh I have to get out of this and not go back to it. Why am I here - it is only making me angry and I am getting no sleep anyway.

 

[alohagal]

Can you say where it has been posted? I am interested to read.

There are many other forums on the Internet that concern highly technical diving. I do not belong to them myself.

I could not direct you there either.

 

[ScubaSteve]

What Is Wrong With You People? We don't even know at this point if Ben has expired! IT IS NOW CONSIDERED A CRIME SCENE! Not to say a crime has taken place but for goodness sake can't you divers stop saying these things about him until we know? They are fine , wonderful people - All of them! If he went down, something strange happened to him, but they are obviously looking at other possibilities! Oh I have to get out of this and not go back to it. Why am I here - it is only making me angry and I am getting no sleep anyway.

Then you know what you must do. If you feel this way now, you will feel this way tomorrow because this forum is designed for specifically this. This is why family and friends are encouraged to read the Passings thread instead of one in this area. Nothing is ever intended to hurt anybody but the discussions get very detailed and tough at times. Safe travels to you and yours.

 

[regena]

OH I am sorry but I Have to reply to you. These things that are said about him at this point are childish and ridiculous. Speak all of your technical talk, but stop trashing Ben. You don't even know that the dive took place or that he has died. Obviously you know more than his parents about what is going on and the sheriff's office! I respect your hobby or career choice (if diving) but you are showing ignorance in your continued trashing of this man. I agree with cave diver - leave it alone until you know the truth!

 

[prophet]

First let me preface what I am about to say by saying that Ben is a friend of mine...

Everyone takes risks from the moment they are born into this world. Some people choose to avoid unnecessary risks, while others take calculated risks, and even still, there remain those that will take any risk so long as in their minds there is a reward at the end. I do not believe for a moment that any of you miss my point.

I understand the point of analysis of accidents and trying to learn as much as you can from these events. The issue that I have here is the attacking of the character of an individual and attempting to make judgments about this person based on quite a bit of hearsay. I do analysis as part of my daily job, and I am only concerned with what went wrong with the systems or software. I am never concerned with the character of the engineer who built the system, or developed the software. I feel that is why you have had the response to some of the posts in this thread.

I, as I am sure anyone close to Ben, appreciate anyone who has assisted in the search, and taken the risks involved for someone they do not know. I also appreciate many of you who have offered your expertise and information in this thread so that other less learned individuals may understand what might have taken place.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Guys remember that this is his family. I don't like what's going on due to friends being involved with this search but I do have some compassion. Ben screwed up one way or another, his family didn't. Go easy on th

 

[ScubaSteve]

OH I am sorry but I Have to reply to you. These things that are said about him at this point are childish and ridiculous. Speak all of your technical talk, but stop trashing Ben. You don't even know that the dive took place or that he has died. Obviously you know more than his parents about what is going on and the sheriff's office! I respect your hobby or career choice (if diving) but you are showing ignorance in your continued trashing of this man. I agree with cave diver - leave it alone until you know the truth!

If you believe that what is being said is childish and ridiculous then perhaps you could offer some constructive input where those comments have been made and why you feel the way you do. You can add value here or you can do yourself more harm than good by watching and remaining emotional. It is your call but the conversation will likely persist one way or another.