Alternatives to Halcyon ?

[reubencahn]

But what you also did was compare Halcyon's package price to those other vendor's component price, and that's a bit misleading. A real comparison would be to compare component prices to component prices, and package prices to package prices. Unless your mind's made up on the Halcyon rig, then I suggest that you look a little closer at the kind of deals you can get from Oxycheq and/or Dive Rite.


... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Agree with this but it may also be a bit misleading to compare Halcyon's advertised package price to an Oxycheq package price from COVCI. It's generally possible to get a 10 to 15% further discount on the Halcyon price while there won't be much room for negotiation on the Oxycheq.

 

[Scubaroo]

II did a search last nite and found that a complete Halcyon MC system: backplate (SS or AL, same price), pioneer wings 27, harness, and the little smb bag can be had for about $485. I think this is a 'good to go package', ie, includes single tank bands, inflator hose, nuts/bolts, etc., just add tank/reg and mix w/ water.

...

The Oxycheq wing 30 is $251 (sig series), bp $130 (ss), sta $59, bands $60, figure a pouch at $40. Total $540 not including nuts/bolts.

...

Where is the 'cheaper alternative'? Am I missing something?

What you're missing is that the Halcyon Pioneer is *not* the equivalent of the OxyCheq Signature wing. You should be comparing Pioneer and Standard wings, or Eclipse and Signature wings.

Looking at FifthD's website, the Pioneer is $485-515, and the Eclipse $595. OxyCheq retail for Standard rigs is $470, and Signature is $565 (from memory, I don't have my dealer pricelist here in front of me at the moment). Gotta compare apples to apples. Okay, not big differences, but it's pretty competitive.

Also, the OxyCheq STA for $59 DOES include nuts and bolts if you're buying components. Get your facts right. Just because they're not shown in the picture on the OxyCheq website doesn't mean they don't come with SS bolts, washers and wingnuts. Buy one in Oz and I even throw in spring washers so the user has a choice. If you want to save a few more $$$, there's even a "soft" STA option that can bring the price down further. I don't think it's on the OxyCheq website yet, but it's certainly available. Just thread the camstraps through the backplate and wing, and use the soft STA to stabilise the tank.

There's also no "fair trade pricing" agreements locking in prices of OxyCheq gear either - unlike others.

Lastly, buy buying an OxyCheq wing, you're not supporting dive companies whose shareholders run around causing havoc in the dive industry with frivolous lawsuits designed to drive competitors out of business :11:

 

[skipperbrown]

OK, well back to the original question of who makes other DIR style equip. other than Halcyon w/ similiar quality what I've learned here is that the major players (in no particular order) are Oxycheq, Dive Rite, Deep Sea, FredT, and OMS (was OMS mentioned?). They all make good equipment.

And all the 'package deal' prices from these manufacturers are going to be within about 10-15% of each other if you compare apples to apples or wings to wings as the case may be (although I haven't pm'd FredT yet to get his prices).

So if you are looking for a substantially cheaper product w/ the same quality, you probably won't find it if you are buying new? Or can someone give me a url?

 

[Scubaroo]

"Substantially cheaper" would also apply to the quality. FredT doesn't make wings, but one heck of a backplate.

 

[john_p]

I am torn. I prefer the BP/W setup and all that goes with it. But the problem is if I compare the Halcyon setup from one of my local dive shops vs a non "DIR" setup of another, the price differential is huge. I have to stay within my budget. I anticipate doubles in the future, so the price of future expansion has to figure into my budget. I don't want to start with a basic DIR rig and expect to grow from there. I will be doing this all in one huge transaction. So controlling the price is important. The ceiling on my budget for all equipment is about $5000 'ish. That includes a drysuit.

My DIR lds is all Halcyon, guages, knives, lights, wings etc. The other LDS is Zeagle Ranger, React Pro, different fins. Perhaps its the location difference between the two and the customer base that they serve. The DIR lds is located in an upper crust town and the other is a regular town.

I know that DIR is not necessarily Halcyon, but this LDS is the only one in the area that supports the DIR philosophy.

What other manufacturers offer DIR style equipment for less than Halcyon? Halcyon has the "name" but who else has the same quality, or better? Also, how do local DIR lds's react to coming in for education -n- other stuff when you haven't bought the majority of equipment from them. I am not interested in "grey" market merchandise.

Thanks
John

I would check SCUBATOYS.COM They have a lot of new gear in their DIR/Tech section, and the pricing is not that bad. They will even make a deal with you if you buy a full set up. However, they are licensed dealers for the equipment that they sell and won't sell Scuba Pro over the internet or the phone. but they carry Dive Rite, OMS, and oxy check. They also have a relatively knowlageable staff on DIR methodologies.

 

[UWSojourner]

I prefer the Oxycheq wing. Originally I used their Koplin plate, but I got a FredT plate and, for me, that was superior - off to Ebay for the Koplin.

I did not like the Halcyon Eclipse. Maybe their other wings are better.

Good luck.

 

[JS1scuba]

I am torn.

Remember that DIR is a process and a philosophy it should not be manufacturer specific. That said here we go.

Wings --- most of not all the wings made are of similar design. As long as a wing is the right size (lift) then it works.

OMS (non-bungee)
Deep Outdoors
OxyCheq
Dive Rite
DIR-Zone (these are very robust)
TDL - Abyss

Plates --- I have been making plates for years. Each plate has its own features but in the end they need to be able to hold the tanks and the accessories.

The harness is simple and everyone has a harness in the standard "hogarthian" set up.

TDL
OMS
Dive Rite
Deep Outdoors (purist)
Dive Rite
OxyCheq

Gauges

TDL -- we have it hands down the best price on these you can imagine. And so that there is ZERO confusion on quality. WE all make our gauges at the same factory. TDL, OMS, ScubaPro, DiveRite, Halcyon etc. We happen to also make them in both large and small face ......

Hoses -- TDL, OMS, Dive Rite -- we have the largest selection in stock

Regulator Aqualung Legend LX, Apeks AT100, AT50, Dive Rite, ScubaPro, OMS, (halcyon does not make regulators) while the Posedion is a super top performer it is not "DIR" because of the pilot valve (too long to discuss here)

Lights Halcyon makes a nice HID but its the most pricey, with NiMH making the battery packs smaller it really makes no difference what pack you use, they can all mount to the belt easily. OMS makes an OUTSTANDING light, so is the new GreenForce (about the best made) but may not fly with the "dir/gue" folks as its not the house brand.

Back Up Lights -- TDL, we make ours in Aluminum, Dive Rite, OxyCheq etc all make great back ups.

Fins .... Scuba Pro, Aqualung (new Rocket II) , Turtle, and some others -- Spring straps can be had from Manta, Appollo, Scuba Pro etc ....

Clips -- most LDS dont stock these, in fact we sell clips to most of them when they have tech classes. Dive Rite, OMS, TDL, DeepOutdoors stores have them. Or get em from us. We STOCK everything.

Reels and Spools --- OMS, Dive Rite, OxyCheq, Manta etc ..

Tanks --- Luxfer for Aluminum, Faber or Worthington (January) for steel. There is still some PST out there but there but hard to get due to production issues. We stock Luxfer and Faber

Bands --- Highland or OMS, Diverite has nice bands too.

Valves --- hands down you want Thermo they are truly the best, though OMS and Dive Rite are outstanding as well. Thermo is the most sold and used valves in the world.

so you have LOTS of options.

Buying from the Training Store

This is an interesting one. If they are a progressive store then they will understand budgets and will work with you on getting you into the gear you want. If they are not and only subscribe to the dogma that is put on them then you might have problems.

I own a dive store, I own an equipment company, and we train a LOT of technical divers. Tech students are given a list of equipment they must OWN for a class. We encourage them to purchase from us but as you see from my list above it's pretty open. If the CUSTOMER choses to purchase product from someone else then that is fine. Without much issue we would like to know where / why they went elsewhere so we can fine tune what we do but its not an issue.

We charge an appropriate price for our training. We don't discount it with equipment sales or the expectation of equipment sales, they are two seperate areas. If your LDS is too uptight about that then you may need to seek training elsewhere. Nothing is worse than taking a class from and instructor/ LDS that has resentment that you did not spend all your money with them. It does not make for effective training or results.

The LDS (i hate that term) it should be PDC (professional dive center) if they do their job correctly can garner 75% of your equipment sales. diver's will always shop elsewhere regardless of loyalty. They have to. It's our nature. Heck I own a PDC and an equipment company and I buy stuff in other stores when I am out and about.

So, I hope this gives you some better options as to what to get and where to go.

Regards,