Am I being unreasonable if I believe that...

[Jim Lapenta]

Agreed. Students should not be carrying cameras on checkout dives. This is totally irresponsible on the part of all involved. If you need to lay on the bottom or on the coral or on a piece of history to take a picture you have no business doing it. Unless you'd like to go lay on the bottom of one of our quarries or lakes in the 2-6 foot deep silt. Then take all the photos you want. As far as it goes, any instructor who teaches a photo class to someone who cannot control their buoyancy or does not include extensive buoyancy control as part of the training is irresponsible as well.

When you said laying on torpedos to take photos all I could think of was an image of a small shaped charge that you could remotely detonate and give them something to "think about"!

 

[InTheDrink]

I agree those with inadequate skills should be circumspect about using a camera. But I've also seen plenty myself included, that satisfy themselves with poorer shots in order to not upset the environment.

Equally, I've seen *plenty* of divers with great buoyancy and lots of experience both interfere and damage the environment through lack of care.

I think attitude is equally important and at least new divers have inadequate skills and lack of education on their side. The more experienced divers should know better (you know who you are!).

 

[nilsdiver]

If you cannot hover motionless (or reasonably so) while trying to take a photo undewater you have NO BUSINESS DIVING WITH A CAMERA.



I just returned from two weeks on the Truk Odyssey where I have to say I was absolutely appalled by the complete lack of bouyancy control, crappy finning technique, and overall poor dive awareness exhibited by several of my fellow passengers.

Seems though that the main thing these people had in common was they were all carrying cameras and committed to getting as many pictures of everything as possible in as short a period of time as possible.

In order to accomplish this mission these folks would...

- Stand on whatever deck, gun, propeller, rudder, etc was handy
- Lay directly on coral, artifacts, torpedos, tanks etc
- Fin constantly in a vertical position in engine rooms and cargo holds resulting in a complete silt-out
- Race around the wreck at top speed with fins, consoles, lights, etc dragging
- Dodge between other divers and their photographic subjects

On most dives these folks rendered each dive site absolutely un-divable within minutes of descent. Certainly reducing the enjoyment of others who paid thousands of dollars to travel to Truk Lagoon to see these wrecks, but frequently creating real safety hazards for other divers, especially in engine rooms, inner passageways, etc.

Now, I'm often accused of being a bouyancy, trim, and finning ****, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone to have at least rudimentary skills in these areas before diving on/in 65yr old WWII wrecks. Honest to god, it looked like a bunch of "Operation Hailstorm Re-enactors" attacking the Japanese fleet for a second time!

/rant

I would recommend against spends thousands of dollars on dive trips where everyone on the boat is not personally vouched for or vouched for by someone you trust. That generally solve problems like this.

 

[BlueGirlGoes]

Having been on too many dives where people think their crappy pictures take precedence over everyone else's experience, I'd pay good money to go on a dive with NO photographers. This isn't always the case, but GAH when it happens....

 

[Puffer Fish]

Please share the names of these instructors publicly so that people can know to avoid them. I think it's absolutely irresponsible to allow - much less encourage - a student to bring a camera on OW checkout dives.

Well, I for one have let several students bring a camera with them on checkout dives...They didn't get to use them during any dives, but I did take pictures of them using their camera's afterwards..

I have also allowed people to bring beer..so I guess one can assume that I allowed drunken, photograph taking people on checkout dives...Oh wait, that was for the party afterwards..

It might be a bit more helpful if one asked what he meant by that.

 

[RonFrank]

* * * Mod Post * * *

I have deleted a number of posts from this thread as it was reported.

Let's keep in mind this is in the BASIC-Scuba forum, and this is a *flame free zone*

Carry on!

* * * Mod Post * * *​

 

[Nemrod]

Would you quietly abide by such a decision?

Damaging a Joshua tree or Redwood is prohibited by law, spray painting a cliff face is prohibited by law.

Being an underwater oaf is not unlawful.....insofar as I am aware.

Actually damaging coral is illegal in many places and illegal does not define right from wrong or the morality of being so selfish as to destroy the environment for one's pleasure, for a photograph that will be erased in three months.

Would I sit quietly by if another diver who was harassing marine life was banned from diving, of course I would, maybe I would help the captain tie them down if he needed me. Captain is the boss. If you are asking about me----->me<------, well, I don't lay on the reef. Accidents happen, no problem there, repeatedly laying on the reef and damaging artifacts, that is willful and intentional and it can be illegal.

So, let's see, if an unruly passenger was threatening to open the door in flight and the captain asked you to help restrain the passenger--you would refuse? Now, that is a rhetorical question because I know you would do your part to ensure a safe ending for everyone including the unruly passenger (maybe off his meds or something).

Most people, the vast majority, when tactfully told will follow the lead and do as asked, sometimes they just don't know the harm they are doing and once they know happily comply.

Here it is straight up--stay off the reef, keep off the artifacts---just that simple.

N

 

[InTheDrink]

Some places prohibit gloves and knives (red sea egypt). Perhaps cameras could be prohibited as well?

Ultimately they won't be tho. Pictures are a major part of many peoples dives. Take that away = take money away from the industry = ergo will not happen.

Cameras particularly digital, are here to stay. Better training and guidelines are probably the only answer as no-one is going to ban them.

 

[Just another Cinderella]

I don't think buoyancy issues have anything to do with cameras. There are good and bad divers on both sides of the lens. Having a camera however doesn't automatically allow you special privileges. I have to agree that divers with cameras in general would have more fun and take better pictures if they would just SLOW down. When I see that special subject I will often swim away and take in the whole reef in order to plan the safest way to approach the shot. That also allows me to slow my breathing down and get control of my buoyancy. In some spaces it is very hard to hover so I swim away again, check my settings and reset the shot.
Sometimes that frog fish just isn't in a place that allows for a good image so enjoy the visual and move along.
It is such a joy to see a good diver in action. When you get back on the boat/shore make a point of complimenting them in front of everybody. It gets the whole group thinking!

 

[Doc]

Perhaps cameras could be prohibited as well? Take that away = take money away from the industry = ergo will not happen.

We see a "no still camera photography" rule at the over-hyped Mary's Place in Roatan.

A couple of dive operations actually try to enforce it. Others take cruise ship divers through it fresh off their floating hotel.