And they say blondes are dumb?

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MissyP:
True.. but common sense should tell you that you don't dive to a 100 ft wreck (w/o personal experience, an instructor, or an experienced diver). I'd definitely respect the person that has the courage to just say "I'm not experienced enough for this", over the person who thinks s/he's invincible.

As the boat captain said to those 4 divers, "hopefully I've put the fear of death into you"...
Heh, I did feel bad for those 3mm guys though.. buying a boat ticket only to get 5 min of underwater time...

Common sense should tell you not to run out of air. Common sense should tell you to check your tank pressure before you submerge. Common sense should tell you not to swim a wreck without a compass. Common sense says you should take an SMB on all your dives in case you get lost in the current or lose the anchorline. And common sense says you should understand tables so when your dive computer craps out you aren't left helpless.

In fact, common sense should tell us to stay the hell out of the water if we need to strap on $1k worth of stuff to simply breathe! Most newbie divers don't understand the risks involved in just dipping down a few more dozen feet to see the cool wreck down there. Heck, they can still look up and see the dive boat. How bad could it be? Everyone else is doing it. What makes them special?

The sad fact, is that there are a LOT of ignorant newbies out there because certifying agencies give out OW C-Cards to people who shouldn't have them. I was fortunate enough to have a strict instructor (PADI if you can believe it) who instilled proper respect for diving in us. And I am a curious person by nature, so I've read everything about diving I could get my hands on. I know how to rig a backplate and harness, I know how to do deco planning, and I can run my tables easily. And I am a rank newbie. I am not typical. Typical would be that couple on the boat in the 3mm wetsuits who had no idea how to plan for conditions. How often do you think people like that check their gas? Think they understand pressure groups and NDL? Accidents waiting to happen. Just like the morons who enter caves with no lights, , no reels, and flutter kicking all the silt off the bottom.

Very few things in our sport are common sense. Much of our sport is dictated by strict rules, physiology, and advanced science and technology. The penalties for ignorance can be quite high, and one bad mistake can kill. Its' like getting into a racing car with a learners permit. You can tell the person not to exceed 75 mph, but when the needle goes to 200.. it takes discipline most people don't have.

I'll give you a true newbie story for entertainment purposes:

OW certification dive. 65ft deep spring. Water temp about 62 degrees. I do my pre-dive check with my buddy, and all seems well. Class is instructed to swim out to the marker where we will descend. I inflate my BC and head out. About 15 seconds into the swim, I am struggling mightily, like a force is trying to drown me. I swim back, thinking I am grossly overweight. Class is now waiting for me. I ditch my weight belt altogether, fill up my BC, and the process repeats. I swim back out. Problem... BC has a slow leak and won't hold air.

Lesson learned: Pre-Dive should include bouyancy check on the surface.

Same dive after getting new BC. Do some swimming as a group, work on trim, etc. Get to buddy breathing at 45 feet on the bottom. Instructor selects myself and my buddy as we look the most comfortable in the class. My buddy breathes my octo fine. Applause from class and instructor. I attempt to breathe from my buddy's octo. As I bite down, the regulator floats away while I have the mouthpiece in my mouth. An honest to goodness OOA in dive 1 of the OW cert class. The instructor's eyes get as big as dinner plates as he helps me recover my reg. I never blinked. He asks me ok, I signal ok, applause from instructor and class.

Lesson learned: Assemble your own gear and check EVERYTHING in pre-dive.


It's darn easy to bag on people new to this sport. In fact, what should be happening, is that people need to remember how hard this sport is take up, and lend some assistance to newbies. Any experienced diver on the boat should have said to Mr. and Ms. 3mil suit, hey, you're probably going to freeze in that small suit, you might want to think twice about diving it. Someone could have mentioned pre-dive to the other couple that a 100ft dive might be inappropriate for them. Did the captain or dive-master explain the boats itererary prior to leaving shore? Maybe there was a different boat they should or could have gotten on. If we don't help the people newest to this sport, we doom them to be internet jokes, or worse, statistics.

Sorry to get on my soapbox, but it's hard being the newbie here and seeing my peers get bagged on when a lot of them are just trying to get experience, and don't know any better.

Thanks for letting me vent...
 
The LoisAnn's webpage (www.loisann.com) gives plenty of information to let divers know whether they should be diving the wrecks or not. From reading their site, I knew that I shouldn't be diving the Yukon without more training or experience (I currently have about 20 dives). You can also figure out that it's going to be cold down there. However, I will get to dive the Yukon and Ruby E next month in a wreck diving class.
 
PerroneFord:
Common sense should tell you not to run out of air. Common sense should tell you to check your tank pressure before you submerge. Common sense should tell you not to swim a wreck without a compass. Common sense says you should take an SMB on all your dives in case you get lost in the current or lose the anchorline. And common sense says you should understand tables so when your dive computer craps out you aren't left helpless.

In fact, common sense should tell us to stay the hell out of the water if we need to strap on $1k worth of stuff to simply breathe! Most newbie divers don't understand the risks involved in just dipping down a few more dozen feet to see the cool wreck down there. Heck, they can still look up and see the dive boat. How bad could it be? Everyone else is doing it. What makes them special?

The sad fact, is that there are a LOT of ignorant newbies out there because certifying agencies give out OW C-Cards to people who shouldn't have them. I was fortunate enough to have a strict instructor (PADI if you can believe it) who instilled proper respect for diving in us. And I am a curious person by nature, so I've read everything about diving I could get my hands on. I know how to rig a backplate and harness, I know how to do deco planning, and I can run my tables easily. And I am a rank newbie. I am not typical. Typical would be that couple on the boat in the 3mm wetsuits who had no idea how to plan for conditions. How often do you think people like that check their gas? Think they understand pressure groups and NDL? Accidents waiting to happen. Just like the morons who enter caves with no lights, , no reels, and flutter kicking all the silt off the bottom.

Very few things in our sport are common sense. Much of our sport is dictated by strict rules, physiology, and advanced science and technology. The penalties for ignorance can be quite high, and one bad mistake can kill. Its' like getting into a racing car with a learners permit. You can tell the person not to exceed 75 mph, but when the needle goes to 200.. it takes discipline most people don't have.

I'll give you a true newbie story for entertainment purposes:

OW certification dive. 65ft deep spring. Water temp about 62 degrees. I do my pre-dive check with my buddy, and all seems well. Class is instructed to swim out to the marker where we will descend. I inflate my BC and head out. About 15 seconds into the swim, I am struggling mightily, like a force is trying to drown me. I swim back, thinking I am grossly overweight. Class is now waiting for me. I ditch my weight belt altogether, fill up my BC, and the process repeats. I swim back out. Problem... BC has a slow leak and won't hold air.

Lesson learned: Pre-Dive should include bouyancy check on the surface.

Same dive after getting new BC. Do some swimming as a group, work on trim, etc. Get to buddy breathing at 45 feet on the bottom. Instructor selects myself and my buddy as we look the most comfortable in the class. My buddy breathes my octo fine. Applause from class and instructor. I attempt to breathe from my buddy's octo. As I bite down, the regulator floats away while I have the mouthpiece in my mouth. An honest to goodness OOA in dive 1 of the OW cert class. The instructor's eyes get as big as dinner plates as he helps me recover my reg. I never blinked. He asks me ok, I signal ok, applause from instructor and class.

Lesson learned: Assemble your own gear and check EVERYTHING in pre-dive.


It's darn easy to bag on people new to this sport. In fact, what should be happening, is that people need to remember how hard this sport is take up, and lend some assistance to newbies. Any experienced diver on the boat should have said to Mr. and Ms. 3mil suit, hey, you're probably going to freeze in that small suit, you might want to think twice about diving it. Someone could have mentioned pre-dive to the other couple that a 100ft dive might be inappropriate for them. Did the captain or dive-master explain the boats itererary prior to leaving shore? Maybe there was a different boat they should or could have gotten on. If we don't help the people newest to this sport, we doom them to be internet jokes, or worse, statistics.

Sorry to get on my soapbox, but it's hard being the newbie here and seeing my peers get bagged on when a lot of them are just trying to get experience, and don't know any better.

Thanks for letting me vent...

PerroneFord,
I admire your honest opinions on the subject.....you are absolutely right, unfortunately we live in a society that being quite is the norm, I guess in the name of being polite or not hurting anyone's feelings or even "not my problem" attitude. Perfect example would be telling a total stranger that his zipper is down or he's got lettuce stuck on his teeth etc.
Divers should share their experiences and knowledge with other fellow divers; why do we call it "buddy system" then? Of course, there are obvious black&white mistakes and also there are personal preferences...we can't be telling the surfer dude, not to wear his 3 mil as he has been doing it for many years/dives and he prefers that but if you know someone is obviously new to the sport, or may be even to the area should be warned about the mistake they are about make. It's a risk to be honest especialy with strangers but it's the right thing to do. One day we may need that honest approach ourselves from someone else, or it will be too late discovering when we got home that we've been walking around since lunch with lettuce stuck in our teeth all day. :wink:

Happy and safe diving....
 
Being a diver with less than 30 dives I also can agree with what has been said. I had a good instructor and I don't go beyond what I feel good with. However with that said, I dove a small lake a couple of weeks ago and found out I needed to also shed myself of my vanity!

I got certified in 2003 during a nice warm July in Illinois. I had used a 5-4-3 Deep Sea wet suit during class, so I purchased the same for my diving figuring it would be enough for the dives I plan on doing, which include starting normally in early May and going to late October.

Last year I toughed out a number of dives where I was pretty darn cold, because, hey I'm a guy and I can take the cold.....

This year on the dive I mentioned above, my buddy and I were down about 25' for 20 minutes and I was to the point where I needed a break. So we came up and took a short SI. After I had warmed up a bit (air temp was around 80) we tried it again and I didn't make it down 15' before I was really cold and got a horrible headache. Had to call the dive for the day.

Moral of the story. I knew what the water temp was going to be, but instead of renting an additional 3mm shorty or a full 7mm, I thought to myself, hey I did it last year ok, I'm ok this year too. NOPE.

New divers...be smart and don't think you are physically able to do or withstand more than you think. Just like the divers at the beginning of this thread, 100' down and wearing a 3mm??????? I was taught that diving is supposed to be fun, so if your not having fun because you are preoccupied by some discomfort. Figure out what it is and take the appropriate measure to make the dive fun!

Next dive I am doing in June, I am borrowing a friends farmer john 7mm set!!

Thanks for listening!!!

Jeff
 
LOL thanks!

I just KNOW I am gonna be that fool at some point and I hope some experienced diver comes and tells me, hey, you know if would be useful if you close that cam band on your tank BEFORE you hit the water, or someone tells me some other vital info before I make an *** of myself.

I can see myself striking up a conversation with the folks in the thin suits saying, "Wow, you guys must be really tough. Nearly all of us get cold fast with suits twice as thick as yours. Are you from Alaska or something?". Tactful, and hopefully won't hurt their feelings, but might give them pause.

Then again, the people running the boat could have probably said something since they were the people in highest authority.

Ahhh, who am I foolin'. Without us newbies, what fun would this be! :wink:
 
PerroneFord:
Tactful, and hopefully won't hurt their feelings, but might give them pause.
Then again, the people running the boat could have probably said something since they were the people in highest authority.
QUOTE]

Perroneford, stop taking everything so personally (unless you dove into 49F water in a 3 mil with less than 10 dives under your belt :wink: ).
The thing was, these guys spoke to the boat captain before we boarded the boat- they KNEW 3 mil wasn't appropriate & could have rented gear from the company's on-site rental shack. They chose not to.
The captain & DM both tried to discourage the 7 OW diver from diving (BEFORE they got on the boat), but her "experienced" 20 dive buddy kept talking her back into diving. She caved in and said 'ok'.
I'm not so sure this was newbie error... I think pride (the 3 mil guys), and pressure (the 7 ow diver) were more of the factors. Pride & pressure (to dive)- these folks should have just said NO. Dumb reasons to potentially lose your life over.
 
What's this "common sense" stuff -- trying to come up with new requirements? :)
 
Same dive, different diver w/ lost equipment. His email is included in case someone finds his fin & light.


Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 19:41:10 -0700
From: "Michael Golden" <michael.golden@gcccd.edu>
Subject: [Divebums] FW: Lost UK HD Light and Scubapro jet fin on the
Yukon today

Hi...just taking a chance.
I dove the Yukon today on a local 7am charter. While going down the anchor line (Forward guns), I lost a Scuba pro jet fin (XXL) with spring and my UK HD light came off at the handle (or came unscrewed) on the way down the anchor line.
If anyone finds either of these items, I would sure like to have them back.

The HD light is very nice but what a horrible design. The handle is held to the light by a tiny little screw.The Dive master on the boat said he has seen that problem before (falling off at the handle). Has anyone else had this problem with this light? Anyone have any idea what my chances are to get UK to replace it?

thanks,
-michael

Dive report (abbreviated)

ps Didn't actually get to dive the Yukon as I lost that fin on the way down the anchor chain. A little surgy with swells up to 6 ft. Water temp at surface was 64...returning divers said the thermocline was around 35 feet and the temp then dropped to 50 degrees.
Several of the divers on the boat did not go back into the water for the Ruby E.
Reasons:
1) Lost equipment (me)
2) Several were too cold to go back in
3) Several were seasick.
 
MissyP:
Perroneford, stop taking everything so personally (unless you dove into 49F water in a 3 mil with less than 10 dives under your belt :wink: ).

I get cold easily. And I gotta tell you, I had a farmer john on in a spring and if I could have lit myself on FIRE to warm myself up on dive 2 of the day, I would have considered it! I knew very little about exposure suits and had no idea the difference a hood and good gloves could have made.

I don't mean to represent I am taking this personally per se, I just feel sorry for some of those poor people, ya know?
 
nice thread, but its too bad that all this important info had to be introduced with a sexist remark about blondes. This blonde newbie is working hard at developing her diving skills, including dry suit diving in really cold water (like 38 to 45 degrees, and thats farenheit) but the hair has nothing to do with the brain, you guys, sail 'n dive
 

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