Another OOA Diver, this time uncertified! I'll not hold my tongue again.

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humanFish

Contributor
Messages
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Location
San Rafael, Ca
# of dives
500 - 999
OK,

So I was recently in Mexico for some diving. We show up at the shop to load our gear up on the trailer and what not....standing around with others and there are a couple guys there talking and once seems pretty nervous. Saying things like:

"Well, what am I supposed to do on the surface to breath if they aren't giving me a snorkel"

"But I'm not supposed to go below 40 feet"

"I need to do my navigation specialty, will they let me do that on this dive?"

etc., etc.,

So my buddy and are discussing this and thinking, hey, this guy isn't yet certified. We notice on the dive shop waiver that you can essentially sign your life away and go diving with proof of certification. Bad sign! I am really thinking to myself that this diver is unprepared for this type of diving giving that the currents have been swift, visibility bad, and square profile of first dive to depth of 65 feet. This would be his first dive in these waters, in rented gear, without the advantage of fine tuning his weighting. I'm thinking that I "should" say something. But then I think that I don't want to be the knowitall or whatever, and ultimately he's making his own decisions, etc.

So, we get out to the reef, get another dive briefing...current is swift, we are to go dwon as a group, come up as a group..being that surface current is also strong. There are 8 divers aboard plus the DM.

the dive -

we descend, all is well....except the vis is not great and the current is strong...and we are kicking into it as to not be swept off the reef. So, we are workign pretty hard, seeing some cool stuff. The group as a whole is spreading out a bit. My buddy and I drop behind a ledge to escape the current and to watch some schooling jacks above us, two more buddy groups join us, but not the nervous diver and his buddy or the DM.. We are all hanging out there, still finning in place and what not when there is a strong double tug on my fin. This is about 15 minutes into the dive. So I turn around and here is the DM sharing air to the uncertified diver. The DM makes a slashing motion across his throat and points to the diver he is sharing air to, then indicates they are heading to the surface and they turn and go.

OK, so I turn around and one of the buddy groups is gone, and the other four of us begin our ascent and do a drifting stop. We drift on the surface for several minutes until the boat sees us, then we board. The other buddy group has not surfaced or has and has gone drifting topside...we don't know. Anyway, they surface 15 minutes later...they should have surfaced when they found themselves alone, per the pre-dive briefing...

During the SI, it is begins to become clear that the buddy team in question is preparing to dive again! For some reason they did not, I'm not sure if the DM told them they didn't have permission or whatever...and anyway, the OOA diver was by now feeding the fish.

LESSONS LEARNED:

I should have mentioned something to the diver. Just given him a bit of a warning that maybe he's over his head and shouldn't be diving before his training was complete...and quite possibly after some ocean experience in a calm environment.

I should have really questioned the wisdom of even going out on the boat with an uncertified diver when this really wasn't a "discover scuba" type of dive.

I'm not going to hold my tongue any longer..and will probably not dive with ops that are taking out uncertified divers that do not have an instructor along with them. I know that Mexico is a foreign country and has different interpretations of the "rules"...I'm just glad no one got hurt.

I talked with the DM later that day and said that he had looked at the diver's guage an saw that he was OOA. The diver himself did not even realize it. He really dodged a bullet I guess. The DM also said that a direct ascent was necessary as the panicked diver breathed down the DM's tank in the time that it took to alert us of the situation.

anyway...that's the story...for the most part...
 
humanFish:
OK, So I was recently in Mexico for some diving.

Lessons learned:

Pick your dive op more carefuly.

Can't blame the "victim/customer". What does/did he know?

My SO and female unit dive buddy who now buckles up and does solo night dives began her career as a "resort course" diver in sunny Mexico. She had her mask dislodged by fin kick at 45 feet and barely lived to tell the tale.

She got her second dive in Jamaica. (Amazing she tried it again) Had maybe 28 lbs of weight on her skinny size 4 body and the BC kept trying to float up and strangle her.

She has since become certified and highly skilled.

We did one dive with a fairly famous Scandanavian dive guide in Tobago who led a resort course outing to 90 feet while spearfishing. It was okay as they all smoked grass back at the shop.

Chose wisely. Looks like you learned from the bad situation and came through okay.
 
RoatanMan:
Can't blame the "victim/customer". What does/did he know?

Nothing apparently, that's the problem. He was UNCERTIFIED. He didn't know enough to check his guages, control his breathing, not go on an advanced dive, etc, etc. Equal blame should go to the op. I tend to think that someone who is dive training ought to know off the bat that the reason you get training is that so you don't die. His certified buddy wasn't much help either..encouraging him to go when he was voicing concern, etc.. A "trust-me" dive situation for sure.


RoatanMan:
Lessons learned:
Chose wisely. Looks like you learned from the bad situation and came through okay.

Unfortunately, this was a case of choosing the lesser of 3 evils :) We were in a pretty remote spot and not a lot to choose from...but I totally agree. If I had more time in the area I may have called the dive...but when you only get a couple days of diving in a short trip I guess you take what you can get...you know what I mean. Still, I can't believe some dive ops take people out with proof of certification like this....incredible.

I like your scandanavian weed smoking spero dive guide story...how many dives did you do with him?
 
humanFish:
I like your scandanavian weed smoking spero dive guide story...how many dives did you do with him?

Ahhh.... 1/2 a dive ? How does that count in a log book? We surfaced and sat quietly. Packed our gear in the "shop" and inhaled deeply as we left :D
 
RoatanMan:
Ahhh.... 1/2 a dive ? How does that count in a log book? We surfaced and sat quietly. Packed our gear in the "shop" and inhaled deeply as we left :D

hhmmm...good question. I've smelled lots of stinky neoprene in and around dive shops...but never pot. Perhaps the DM went after the fish with so much gusto due to the munchies.
 
humanFish:
"I need to do my navigation specialty, will they let me do that on this dive?"

I don't get this part. You have to have O/W certification to do the Navigation Specialty (with PADI anyway), so why is he asking to do a specialty if he's not certified? Not that it makes it ok to do this type of dive with an O/W cert and little experience - just wondering...
 
RoatanMan:
Can't blame the "victim/customer".

RMan, are we customers or are we divers?

i don't like this fostering of the "customer" mentality in an activity that
carries with it inherent risk (albeit low)

a customer/consumer is passive and relies on others for his/her safety

a diver is a participant, and as such, relies on himself first and his buddy second
for safety

if he's a "victim/customer" he has no business diving

(ok.. rant over... :D )
 
humanFish:
hhmmm...good question. I've smelled lots of stinky neoprene in and around dive shops...but never pot. Perhaps the DM went after the fish with so much gusto due to the munchies.


I tried it once but I didn't inhale! :)
 
From the initial post, it seems to me like the person in question was certified to OW level. If this is the case, then it is that persons responsibility to make safety decisions for themselves. It is their own fault that they are not looking at their gauges, did the dive in the first place. It is their responsibility to dive within their limits.
I don't see how it is the Dive Ops fault. Could they have recommended that the dive might be too tricky for him? Of course, but if he is certified, he is certified. Max. Depth recommendations are just that- Recommendations.
A cert. is not a license, and Dive Ops are not and should not be expected to be the Scuba Police.
 
Xman, I agree with you 100%. It sounds like this guy was Basic OW certified, and was trying to get his Advanced OW certification, hense the need for the Navigation specialty. And yes, we are divers and are responsible for our actions, and whether we decide to partake in a dive or not. It is not the dive operators responsibility, as Xman said, to police our sport. Once they knew that the man had a certification for diving, it is their business to take him on a dive if that is what he requests and pays for. The onus for conducting a safe dive was on this diver, not the shop.
 
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