AOW as an experienced diver

[AfterDark]

Uh, most charters would have let you go, if you had a good log book (showing over 100 dives), and had logged dives over 90 feet in the past year.

No, if that was the case I wouldn't have spent the $$$ to take the course. I have several good log books showing over 1900 dives in 40 years. Some charters didn't even want to look at them. They'd rather have a diver with an AOW card and no experience, than a diver with experience but without an AOW card, go figure.

 

[boulderjohn]

They'd rather have a diver with an AOW card and no experience, than a diver with experience but without an AOW card, go figure.

Perfectly understandable.

If they have a rule requiring AOW, then if there is a problem that could lead to a legal issue, then their ability to follow such a simple rule is easy to defend, and the burden of whether or not the diver has the expected skill is on the agency and the instructor who issued the certification.

If they have a policy based on the quality of the diver's experience, then every dive depends upon the judgment of their employees. Did this diver have enough dives in this kind of environment? Were those dives sufficiently advanced? Was the log faked? Where do you draw the line in terms of experience? The burden is squarely upon them to prove that their employees made the right decision in allowing the dive.

If I owned an operation, I would probably do the same thing.

 

[AfterDark]

Which is why I blame the slip and fall lawyers and not the OPs.

 

[DevonDiver]

Which is why I blame the slip and fall lawyers and not the OPs.

And the media... who'll typically refer to a 'victims' experience in relation to their certification level - basically lambasting a dive center publicly if it appears that an incident happened "because an inexperienced diver was taken on an advanced dive"....

...and possibly the inquest board, who'll raise the same issue...

That may not be pertinent to the USA - but in other parts of the world (i.e. where you go on holiday), such bodies are not necessarily shining examples of competence.

I've known several dive operations who've had the misfortune to experience 'non-blameworthy' fatal diver/customer incidents. Not only was this a traumatic event for the dive staff/employees, but also had significant damaging business impacts - due to negative reporting, blame-storming and public commentary by authority figures who weren't knowledgeable about diving.

 

[The Chairman]

PADI America processes over 3,000 cards a day. All the cards for PADI Europe are done once a week and sent to Europe for distribution. PADI Japan prints their own.

 

[The Chairman]

Now, back to the OP... the real difference is in the instructor. Here in Key Largo, I require an AOW candidate to show great buoyancy/trim and able to do non-silting kicks. They also have to be able to calculate sac/dac, shoot a sausage from 20 fsw and accomplish a navigation dive. We also cover situational awareness as well as basic line handling skills.

 

[AfterDark]

Now, back to the OP... the real difference is in the instructor. Here in Key Largo, I require an AOW candidate to show great buoyancy/trim and able to do non-silting kicks. They also have to be able to calculate sac/dac, shoot a sausage from 20 fsw and accomplish a navigation dive. We also cover situational awareness as well as basic line handling skills.

Skills that make a someone a diver. IMO things that a diver should have been taught in OW.

 

[arthurmnev]

Skills that make a someone a diver. IMO things that a diver should have been taught in OW.

Agreed, and honestly I learned a lot more in my OW class than AOW... AOW was a congratulations card with minimal effort. Also my OW was done in the Caribbean while I decided to do my AOW in NJ figuring I would learn more in cold poor viz waters with current... Nope... my AOW course turned up to be nothing more than a C card that would satisfy charter captains.

It also helped that the instructor on the islands logged about 5 dives per day for 20 years, so his teaching was an order of magnitude better...

I did, however, learn something -- those were probably the last dives I did in cold water ... not my cup of tea, so, I suppose, there was some benefit.

 

[The Chairman]

Skills that make a someone a diver. IMO things that a diver should have been taught in OW.

A couple of those items ARE included in my OW... sac/dac. buoyancy/trim and propulsion to be specific. However, that doesn't mean that there is no room for improvement and further mentoring in those areas.

 

[supergaijin]

Now, back to the OP... the real difference is in the instructor. Here in Key Largo, I require an AOW candidate to show great buoyancy/trim and able to do non-silting kicks. They also have to be able to calculate sac/dac, shoot a sausage from 20 fsw and accomplish a navigation dive. We also cover situational awareness as well as basic line handling skills.

Skills that make a someone a diver. IMO things that a diver should have been taught in OW.

To be fair, some of those skills eg. DSMB isn't needed as a basic Level 1 diver. More important IMO is to have beginner divers understand that they are beginner divers and they should first be enjoying themselves in shallow water and honing their new skills before attempting anything advanced.

Other skills such as basic navigation are covered in many but not all Level 1 courses. I'd love to have all my students leave me with"great buoyancy and trim" but just like teaching a kid to ride a bike, you have to let them go at some stage.