AOW as an experienced diver

[supergaijin]

There is normally an option for private education, but there will normally be additional fees involved. If you feel that you can benefit from one on one with the instructor, and you have the extra dough, that may be an option.

 

[arthurmnev]

5 Star centers mean nothing in many cases- it doesn't guarantee a quality course

Based on what our instructor told us, the 5 star rating has nothing to do with the quality of training but the type of service the shop provides. I dont remember all details, but one star is given for certified repair, the other for training dive masters, another for mixing air ... I dont remember the other two...

I honestly believe there should be a public database of accidents related to certifications, so if someone has an accident serious enough to warrant an investigation, instructor / shop / diver ID should be recorded and made publicly available. This way you can at least find a relationship between quality of service if you judge it by the final outcome -- an accident free diving.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The name alone implies excellence- 5 star hotels, Michelin star restaurants, 5 Star Padi shops. There is a bit more to it than just being a busy dive center but again it doesn't say anything about the teaching ability of its staff.





Which rescue skills are included in NAUI and SEI? PADI has very basic rescue skills like cramp removal and towing and basic information like what to do with unresponsive divers on the surface, a bit about the importance of O2 etc. That's about it. If I have the time, it'd be interesting to include some more skills but given that, It'd be helpful to know what other agencies promote as suitable skills for entry level divers so as not to overload them.

SEI includes panicked diver at the surface, unconscious diver from depth, rescue tow while stripping gear, and I include supporting a diver at the surface. This is in the OW class. We also include emergency decompression dive planning in the classroom. I consider this a rescue related skill as it has the effect of clearly illustrating the value of gas planning and preventing problems before they become an issue.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[DevonDiver]

Based on what our instructor told us, the 5 star rating has nothing to do with the quality of training but the type of service the shop provides. I dont remember all details, but one star is given for certified repair, the other for training dive masters, another for mixing air ... I dont remember the other two...

That's incorrect - and if that's what you were told, you were misled.

A PADI 5* rating represents several factors, which do include a minimum provision of service, but also relate to the level of payment made to PADI and commercial factors, such as; not offering courses from alternative agencies.

1. Any PADI instructor can train a dive master. To gain a 5* rating, the resort/center must have provided a minimum level of diver certification in the preceding year (which includes several DM ratings). This ensures volume - not quality. Some may say that volume is the antithesis of quality.

2. Dive center must have capacity to fill tanks (compressor) run to set standards. PADI don't, however, enforce or provide air quality testing to ensure that happens.

3. No requirement for mixing air/provision of gases other than air.

4. Center may only offer PADI courses, unless such a course doesn't exist in the PADI system.

5. Center applies for, and pays for, that rating - above and beyond the cost of being a 'regular' PADI recognized center (IRRA member).

6. Center must have no actionable Quality Assurance violations on record for the preceding 2 years. Doesn't mean much, as this relies upon student feedback/complaint which rarely comes...and when it does, often needs to be substantiated by several such complaints.

I honestly believe there should be a public database of accidents related to certifications, so if someone has an accident serious enough to warrant an investigation, instructor / shop / diver ID should be recorded and made publicly available. This way you can at least find a relationship between quality of service if you judge it by the final outcome -- an accident free diving.​

Accidents aren't necessarily blame-worthy to the operators. However, should an investigation find the operator blame-worthy, then it'd be fair to assess that information. This would have to exist outside of the PADI world though - as PADI wouldn't/shouldn't be the agency responsible for inquest into an accident. Impartiality etc...​

 

[AfterDark]

There is normally an option for private education, but there will normally be additional fees involved. If you feel that you can benefit from one on one with the instructor, and you have the extra dough, that may be an option.

The fact is I know as much about this stuff as the instructor. He’s asked me to stop answering questionsthat he asks in class even if nobody else answers. I’ve got other students asking me to helpthem with the subject matter. I could begiving this course. Private instructionsIMO wouldn’t be worth the money.


---------- Post added May 20th, 2012 at 06:53 AM ----------

So what do you preferr? A quick course that ignore wether everyone actually learn what they should or one that takes twice as long but make sure everyone learn?
Would you rather just send people on their way with no further education and still a gap in their basic education (which btw may or may not be at the fault of the instructor) or make sure they get the further education and the gap in their former one filled?

I’d like what’s behind door #3 please. That would be take a competency exam, if passed then issue the card take a little money. Why does everything has to be all or nothing? Oh yeah $$$$$$$$$$$!

 

[RetroBlader]

I’d like what’s behind door #3 please. That would be take a competency exam, if passed then issue the card take a little money. Why does everything has to be all or nothing? Oh yeah $$$$$$$$$$$!

You've got it -- people who run courses/centres/agency all have mouths to feed.

Anyway, for Nitrox, there are many online courses one can take.

Doing Nitrox online doesn't make it any cheaper, but does allow everyone to learn at his/her own pace.

In your case, it would have spared you of having to sit through the instructor teaching how to use tables....


:cool2:

 

[DevonDiver]

I’d like what’s behind door #3 please. That would be take a competency exam, if passed then issue the card take a little money. Why does everything has to be all or nothing? Oh yeah $$$$$$$$$$$!

At what point did you assume that it'd be cheaper to ask an instructor to take an unknown, untrained diver down at depths, with the goal of deciding what level of risk they pose to themselves and that instructor?

 

[James R]

So what do you preferr? A quick course that ignore wether everyone actually learn what they should or one that takes twice as long but make sure everyone learn?
Would you rather just send people on their way with no further education and still a gap in their basic education (which btw may or may not be at the fault of the instructor) or make sure they get the further education and the gap in their former one filled?

if this was directed to my comment about my Nitrox class, my answer is simple: be ready when the class starts so you don't screw everyone else. When we signed up we were told to have the book work (knowledge reviews and sample problems) done before the class. We arrived ready, but three people hadn't even opened the book so the instructor had to either send them home or walk them through doing all the work while we sat there all night waiting. I'm sure you can guess which he chose. This was before online classes, unfortunately!

 

[Tigerman]

Well, THAT is just plain rude and unneccesary. Not understaning something because your initial course was not as good as it should and not preparing at all is quite different things

 

[AfterDark]

At what point did you assume that it'd be cheaper to ask an instructor to take an unknown, untrained diver down at depths, with the goal of deciding what level of risk they pose to themselves and that instructor?

This was directed to a post about a nitrox cert. How do we get to deep, dark depths and untrained divers? There isn't even a dive for this Nitrox course. What would he do, watch me dive? I took all the tests in the nitrox book and passed them without reading the book except for explaintion of the EAD table, after a little reading I was good to go. So why does it cost $130.00 dollars? How about $30.00 to go over the tests and issue the card? No? No good? I've got another Nitrox class this Thursday the last one.

It's not only the cost of the classes. I had to take a night off for the night dive (AOW), it was my premium night, money that doesn't get paid to me if I don't work. I get the base only for a vacation day. Then there was another night off for the 1st Nitrox class. I'm going to try and go to work after this next one.

By the way what instructor would take an untrained diver in the depths? I would say one dive to 30' would tell any instructor worth talking too if a diver is trained or not. Heck I see divers with proof of training putting their BC's on the tank backwards and then can't figure why the reg doesn't mount correctly.
Uncontrolled ascent because of the use of new gear on a night dive. If it's real training your talking about I'm with you, but this stuff is for someone that dives on vacation.

Don't take this to mean that the instructor in not a good one but he's got what he's got to work with. I asked the student that went buoyant on us if she had spent anytime in her living room with the BCD getting the feel for way the controls work and where to find them. "No, I guess I should have". Yeah well you were lucky. When I get new gear I do whatever I can to become familar with it and how it works before it even get's it wet. I don't like surprises when I'm diving unless it's something cool like a whale or a 2 lb lobster.