Artificial Reefs in Texas - Stand up and be counted

[Debraw]

LOL, Chairmantarac, yes 3.8 million does seem like a cash at this point for a project that may or may not still be possible. I was wondering though is the location truly a "done deal"? Since there was not really a big public hearing that we in the industry were completely aware of, should there be one? is it possible just to take a look at it one more time so everyone can get an input? Were notices sent to dive shops? I see you talked to divers and clubs...Which clubs?

 

[Wookie]

Someone needs to step back and ask some more questions. Rob Blessor, the Project Manager for the sinking of the Spiegel Grove, brought that project in for around $1.6 million. I know about inflation, but the Grove only went down 4 years ago. Where is all that money going? It has been said by others that a sucessful artificial reef project in South Padre will lead to others up the coast. I say BS. How many folks have heard of the other two artificial reefs already off of South Padre in the same area, the Navy Barge and the Tugboat. Those wrecks do not make South Padre a destination. Why should anyone think that putting another one in will make it any better. How much money does TP&W have to continue sinking wrecks where folks don't go to dive? I was told that a fishing lobby in Texas had donated $1 million for this project. Is it 30 miles from shore for optimum visibility, or is it so that those in the plastic boats with a single outboard can get towed home by Seatow? Lots of folks from the chumclub and from this forum have written to TP&W. Has anyone recieved a reply by e-mail? ChairmanTARAC (Jim Morrison, Chairman of the TP&W Artificial Reef Advisory Council) has done his very best to explain some of the issues, but the responsibility lies with the employees of TP&W. The TARAC is exactly what the name implies, an advisory council. Their role is to advise TP&W what their constituents (in ChairmanTARAC's case, us) want.

This project needs to be looked at on its merits. A project that depletes the artificial reef program budget to the point that other reefs cannot be created is not a good project. And yes, I do hold some contracts with TP&W, and with their artificial reef program, and they may be upset with me for weighing in, but this project needs a good looking over in the public eye, and not hidden from public view.

 

[mammothdiver]

I have written to Mr. Shively and to Mr. McKinney but haven't received a reply as of today. I know of one dive shop on the coast that was never asked or consulted about placement of an artificial reef off of the Freeport/Galveston area.
And why in the heck did the Oriskany cost so much less than the Clipper? Are they that much cheaper in Florida? Or are our hard earned EPA dollars being squandered?

 

[ReefHound]

The reason so few go to SPI for diving is because it's so remote. That part of the state is poor and sparsely populated.

It's about 7 hours from Houston, depending on what part of town you live. And Houston is the closest major city. Well there's San Antonio, but for some reason I've never met a diver from San Antone. And the viz is maybe 25', if the trip goes.

For a few more hours driving, I can be in Pensacola or maybe Destin. There I can have clearer water, better dive sites, and crystal clear springs in case of weather. Why would I ever choose SPI over the Florida Panhandle? Especially if the Oriskany goes down in May.

 

[Debraw]

Chairman Tarac:

I was wondering though is the location truly a "done deal"? Since there was not really a big public hearing that we in the industry were completely aware of, should there be one? is it possible just to take a look at it one more time so everyone can get an input? Were notices sent to dive shops? I see you talked to divers and clubs...Which clubs?

 

[cmay]

This argument has been going for years. Even members within TPWD have lobbied for the Clipper to rest closer to the Houston/Galveston metro. area citing the same arguments that some of you have pointed out. By all appearances, minds (high up the food chain) were made up before this project even started as to where this wreck should lie. It has basically become a moot point, if the Clipper goes down she will do so in S. Padre.

As far as people questioning why dive shops were not notified, that is what the advisory committee is for, and it sounds like they have made a good effort of trying to convey what the citizens of the Texas expect of the artificial reef program. The artifical reef program is basically a three man operation, and simply do not have the time to go out and poll every shop in the state about a proposed reefing site. They have to rely on the advisory committee for input, but in the end the decision lies with the TPWD.

Also, keep in mind that the Clipper is not being sunk as purely a diving attraction. Yes, it is sure to attract a great number of divers (hopefully myself included), but it is being sunk as an artificial reef to be used by the citizens of the state of Texas for whatever their pursuits may be; diving, fishing, underwater checkers, etc.

As far as co-existing with fishermen, if you have ever done any rig diving in the prime summer months you are most likely very experienced on how to "share" a site with fishermen.

Anyway, just my two cents.

Is summer here yet? I am ready to go diving.

 

[Debraw]

I guess I just need to hear the Chairman of the committee say to me within a public setting that the Clipper is a "done deal" and there is no chance of it being reconsidered and moved.

I still have not gotten any specifics on who was notified. I can understand it was a three man committee, but seriously, they could have made a better effort. Contacting any or all of the training agencies and getting dive shop addresses/numbers would be a simple effort under the intentions they possessed. No one asked them to go out and poll every shop in the state, where did you get that at? Have a public hearing in three or four places in the state, not Brownsville and Texas A&M. I still don't have an answer for when and where the notices were posted.
If the advisory committee did have their mind up before this plan even got started then I have a huge issue with that. I am sure ChairmanTarac will respond in this public setting and please tell me that is not the truth. I deserve as a tax payer to know where my money is spent.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

I read the Evironment Assessment that commented on the sinking of the Clipper for fisherman and divers. They are lumped together as this site being a benefit for both.

Divers and fishermen can and will benefit from this and the assessment should show that. The larger the group that benefits the better the project looks.

When you combine fishing and diving we call it spearfishing. When they combine it in the assessment they mention party boats, fishing boats and dive charters. Exactly how many fisherman will be allowed on this site and for that matter how many divers? I picture divers weaving in between dangling fishing lines or worse getting clocked in the head when they ascend to the surface.

Divers and h&l fishermen can coexist. There are protocols in place that each should follow. A dive boat shouldn't pull up to the wreck when there is a fishing boat already there, and vice versa. It doesn't mean that won't happen. But first come will be a fact of life as it is on many rigs. You can't limit one and not the other and I don't feel limits are the answer.

TwoBit

 

[ReefHound]

Divers and h&l fishermen can coexist. There are protocols in place that each should follow. A dive boat shouldn't pull up to the wreck when there is a fishing boat already there, and vice versa. It doesn't mean that won't happen. But first come will be a fact of life as it is on many rigs. You can't limit one and not the other and I don't feel limits are the answer.

TwoBit

I can see how that is a big problem with charter operations. How can a charter boat (diving or fishing) schedule a trip and take a bunch of people out there only to find the "other" group has already laid claim to the site?

 

[TwoBitTxn]

There is more than one site out there. Unless the fishing is awesome fishing boats normally hit more than one spot in a day. A good captain, dive or fishing boat, has a primary plan, a secondary plan, and probably a plan C and D.

Why can't boat captains talk to each other and work together to reduce conflicts? It would improve business on both sides.

TwoBit