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[Fish_Whisperer]

LMAO!! Oh man... See, I thought Keystone Cops was just a fictional thing. LOL!

 

[BigJetDriver]

I've just about have had it with our reserve program. They cause more problems than they solve. They wear the same uniform as us, but they are not armed. When they do ride-alongs, I find myself spending more time watching/worrying what they are doing, than paying attention to the call.
Our reserves don't have any police powers. They do recieve some training, but not enough. They also can't seem to remember that they are not officers...especially off duty.
I can't remember how many of them we've let go because they were flashing badges and telling people they were officers off duty. They're good for parades, and that's about it...

You have a VERY messed-up Reserve Program. :scared: Someone needs to get in there and totally re-organize it!

In my career, I started out as a Regular, was a Reserve for a while, and am a Regular again. I know full-well that Reserves can do a great job, if they are trained and managed properly.

One problem you folks obviously have is that your "Reserves" do not have to go through the Academy. They obviously cannot be much help if they are not actually sworn officers. If things are as bad as you say, your Police Association or Union needs to go to the management and work with them to get it sorted out!

 

[Knight1989]

Sorry, but I have to ask. Is this a department policy... I work in Florida and we hide all the time. I was even in court when someone tried to use the fact the officer was hiding and he did not see him, but was found guilty.....Judge almost laughed....

Its a military thing. They wont let us hide. But oddly enough the civilian dept I worked on before I moved to FL had the same policy. I dont know if that one was a departmental policy or a state law.

 

[TJcop]

You have a VERY messed-up Reserve Program. :scared: Someone needs to get in there and totally re-organize it!

In my career, I started out as a Regular, was a Reserve for a while, and am a Regular again. I know full-well that Reserves can do a great job, if they are trained and managed properly.

One problem you folks obviously have is that your "Reserves" do not have to go through the Academy. They obviously cannot be much help if they are not actually sworn officers. If things are as bad as you say, your Police Association or Union needs to go to the management and work with them to get it sorted out!

I think you aren't clear on what our reserves are for. They are supposed to be available for special events (parades, festivals, etc), and are just another form of a visual deterent. They are not, nor were they ever meant to be, replacements for officers.

We couldn't afford to place every reserve to the academy ($3000 a student), plus how would they be able to go? The recruit school is from 7am-5pm for 13 weeks...these people have jobs! Our reserves are young students, citizens of the community, doctors, etc....some have been doing it for over 20 years!

That being said, some of them could you some more training, and being told to follow directions better.

 

[BigJetDriver]

I think you aren't clear on what our reserves are for. They are supposed to be available for special events (parades, festivals, etc), and are just another form of a visual deterent. They are not, nor were they ever meant to be, replacements for officers.

We couldn't afford to place every reserve to the academy ($3000 a student), plus how would they be able to go? The recruit school is from 7am-5pm for 13 weeks...these people have jobs! Our reserves are young students, citizens of the community, doctors, etc....some have been doing it for over 20 years!

That being said, some of them could use some more training, and being told to follow directions better.

Ah, I mis-understood. Your reserves are the "Department Store Manikin" type Reserve. They are window-dressing, not true officers. I would not want to have such a group around because, dressed as officers as they are, the public expects them to be able to help, and the bad guys still see them as targets.

I don't know why you guys can't send them through the Academy. We do it down here, and our men and women have real jobs too. All are citizens of the community. Some are accountants, some are computer guys. Hell, some are even PILOTS!!:anakinpod :laughing:

 

[seakdivers]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4368108,00.html

Citizen volunteers offer cops extra hand
Some in program will experience CSI work on the job

January 6, 2006
Denver police introduced seven of their new citizen volunteers Thursday, including a 26-year-old college student headed for the program's elite crime scene investigation unit.
Brooke McCarty said the volunteer program is just ticket to test "if it is something I really want to do."

McCarty said the difference between studying CSI work in books and learning it on the scene might be quite pronounced.

"I don't like to be bored," she said. The job, she said, could "be a little challenging and a lot of fun."

Inundated with calls from would-be sleuths anxious to lend cops a hand, police officials decided to highlight the program at a news conference at police headquarters.

McCarty is one of two volunteers currently slated for a CSI slot to investigate certain property crimes. Over time, the program could expand to 40 to 50 volunteers.

Joining McCarty at the news conference were ham radio operator Joe Hays and victim representative Bob Loveless.

Hays, 52, said his extensive radio experience will give the cops "another pair of ears" during emergencies.

Loveless, 57, described in his introduction as suffering from a terminal neurological illness, said his work has been "very, very rewarding to me - otherwise, I would just stay at home."

McCarty, Hays and Loveless are part of a network of 390 volunteers who have signed on to help take some of the burden off Denver police.

But the star of the news conference was clearly the CSI positions, said Sgt. Matt Murray, who helped design the program.

Given the popularity of the CSI television shows, Murray said he was not surprised.

Seventeen people had called by 5:30 a.m. Thursday, after a newspaper report on the program appeared.

The calls continued throughout the day, Murray said.

The CSI volunteers will not work high-profile or violent crime cases, but will concentrate on property crimes that otherwise might not have been investigated by a traditional CSI team.

"I think it's great for the department," Murray said.

The volunteer program already is paying dividends, he said.

One participant, an IBM employee, has been designing Web sites and compiling crime databases to map crimes.

Another volunteer is piloting a police helicopter.

The idea for the unit surfaced after President Bush introduced a program called Volunteers in Police Service four years ago.

The Denver effort is patterned, in part, after a decade-long program in San Diego.

Pete Zajda, who heads that city's volunteer force, said the program has more than 800 volunteers who do neighborhood patrols and crisis intervention.

Although some San Diego volunteer are trained to take fingerprints from stolen cars, it has nothing as aggressive as Denver's planned volunteer CSI experiment, Zajda said.

In addition to fingerprints, Denver's volunteer CSI teams will be trained to collect DNA evidence, such as that found in loose hairs, Murray said. They also will be trained to take crime scene photographs.

Those who land positions in the CSI unit will undergo extensive training and be asked to take a polygraph test, Murray said.

Police Chief Gerry Whitman introduced Murray at the news conference but let others discuss the details.

The Denver department has been under pressure in recent months for a plunging arrest rate in the face of rising crime numbers.

Murray and others said the program could help the situation by relieving officers of some tasks, effectively putting more officers on the street.

 

[RonDawg]

I think you aren't clear on what our reserves are for. They are supposed to be available for special events (parades, festivals, etc), and are just another form of a visual deterent. They are not, nor were they ever meant to be, replacements for officers.

We couldn't afford to place every reserve to the academy ($3000 a student), plus how would they be able to go? The recruit school is from 7am-5pm for 13 weeks...these people have jobs! Our reserves are young students, citizens of the community, doctors, etc....some have been doing it for over 20 years!

As BJD said, your department has one very messed up Reserve program.

First of all, I am totally against the whole "unarmed, window dressing" reserve thing. If you are going to put officers in the same (or similar-looking) uniforms out in the field, you need to provide them with the same tools and training as the full-timers. When the SHtF, nobody's going to stop and ask them if they are reserves or full-timers. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

Second, $3,000 per head is cheap compared to the costs of a potential lawsuit due to inadequate training. Not just from the public, but from the families of those reserves who are hurt or killed because of inadequate training that they can show would have prevented such a tragedy.

Third, departments all over the country have no problems providing proper training to reserve officers. In CA, the reserve academy is 24 weeks long, meeting every Sunday (or Saturday) all day long, plus 4 hours twice on weeknights. These are the mid-level reserves who still need to ride with full-timers. Those who want to go on to the next level can go for another 24 weeks, but that's strictly optional.

If your department is unable, or simply too cheap, to provide its reserves with the proper training, it's better to disband the unit.

 

[RonDawg]

You give your riders way more power than I do. Thats cool, probably better that they ride with someone like you than with me. They deffinitly are learning more when they ride with you. I'm just not comfertable have an untrained person with me. I do teach them how to get acess to the gun, but only to defend themselfs if I'm already down. I dont let them touch the radio, except in an emergancy, but will let them run a plate every now and then. I make it very clear that if a subject starts resisting they are to stay in the car and they're only job is to call for back up. They are not to try and help. I'm just not big into letting a 16yr old kid get into a scrap with a violent suspect. Makes it harder on me too, now instead of worrying about the suspect, I have to worry about him, and the explorer too.

Remember too that these aren't just any ol' ridealongs, but civilian members of the department. They are supposed to be the future of the department.

As explorers they are supposed to be learning about law enforcement. So I give them the opportunity to do so, under supervision, as long as there is little potential for someone to get seriously hurt or killed. That's why I don't let them act as my backup, nor let them handle firearms, unless something goes seriously wrong.

 

[BigJetDriver]

TJ,

Ron was very right when he pointed out the liability issues. The U.S. Supreme Court has already established guidelines on failure to equip, and failure to train cases that tie that liability not just to the municipality, but to the department, and even to the level of supervisors in the field. It could be argued that you, in permitting one of these folks to go into the field with you, would be liable in a FTE/FTT case.

He is also correct when he says that your department's situation is a disaster waiting to happen. It is probably not far away, unfortunately. :shakehead

 

[TJcop]

Well, I can't do anything about it. That is the way ALL of the reserve programs are run in Wisconsin. They've been around long before me, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Maybe I painted the picture a little too bleak...but I don't think it's as bad as you think. All reserves are accompanied by an officer. They aren't allowed to do anything, unless the officer tells them to. They are just there to ride along and learn...or observe. Some officers don't let the reserve out of the squad. If you are assigned one for half your shift...too bad, you've got him/her.

We had one officer who hated the reserves so much, that he made them ride in the back seat of the squad!!!